Meet Lisa, founder of Rest Ministries and give your
imput on what is needed in our ministry and churches today.
Lisa Copen

3/30/05

[HOST_Carolann] Welcome everyone! And a special welcome to Lisa Copen who is our guest speaker for today. I am so happy that she is able to spend this hour with us.
[HOST_Carolann] This will be a time for us to get to know her better. Ask questions. Maybe offer comments or suggestions about Rest Ministries.
[HOST_Carolann] So I'll keep my introduction short and give our time over to you Lisa!
GUEST_LisaCopen> Greetings, everyone. I am so glad to be here and to get a chance to talk with some of you for the first time. I don't have a specific topic planned. What I was thinking is we'd just roll with it! I'm eager to here about what you like/don't like about Rest Ministries, some brainstorms you may have, etc.
GUEST_LisaCopen> To start off, can I ask, what tools do you think we could better provide to help churches understand the challenges people who live with chronic illness face?
Anna> Let me be the first to say that I am blessed and impressed with Rest Ministries and all the services and products it makes available to those of us with chronic illness.
Brose> Why Can't I make People Understand
Joy_E.> Yes, the book would help...if at least the pastor would read it. Or maybe longer brochures?
Anna> This is a timely topic for me because I'm going to be sitting down with my pastor tomorrow to discuss a possible HopeKeepers group for our church.
GUEST_LisaCopen> Thanks, Anna, as most of you know I am just an ordinary girl who had a dream to have something for people with illness like Joni E. Tada has for people with disability. We have a LONG way to go, but God has really made this dream a reality.
[HOST_Carolann] pastors for sure need to be made aware
Brose> more praise music from individuals who have been effected by chronic pain
Joy_E.> I'm not sure my church would even want to have that group, so I'm concerned.
GUEST_LisaCopen> My other little "dream:" - my 2-year old son is trying to hang on me as I type so bear with me
Brose> or music similar to David you know music that soothes those who are in chronic pain
Anna> My pastor was especially interested in how a HopeKeepers group can be used as an outreach ministry to the community. Lisa, can you tell us a bit about how this has worked for other HK groups?
Alice> Lisa, I think if you could maybe have a brochure for Pastors only, they might read it and be interested. Instead of letting us find Rest Ministries/HopeKeepers and then take it to our Pastors.
Joy_E.> Lisa, have you talked to pastors/Christians who aren't as eager to have HopeKeepers? How did you talk to them?
[HOST_Carolann] I agree Alice, a "For Pastors Only" type of brochure
Joy_E.> Although, I like the idea of outreach to the community. Pastors would like that!
GUEST_LisaCopen> Great! I am thrilled we are getting some solid ideas I can run with already!
Betsy_J> Sorry... my first time in chat room. Looking forward to being part.... please be patient... have tried for 2 years to get others in my church interested in Hopekeepers group... Women's Ministry not interested, and that is the proper channel to go through at my church. How have others been successful?
Brose> My Pastor is interested he sees it as a outreach to the community opportunity
Brose> I just copied the information put it in a folder and gave it to my Pastor
GUEST_LisaCopen> OUTREACH TO COMMUNITY/HK GROUPS "answer": A lot of churches put their meeting announcements in the "health" calendar portions of the local newspapers, and also other areas like bulletin boards in the community, etc. A surprising number of HK leaders have been able to have a story on their group in there papers too. As you may know the "spirituality/health" topic is kind of "hot" right now in media, so there is some interest in what the Christian community is doing too.
Joy_E.> It's tougher when the people in the church believe it's God's will for you to be healed.
Alice> I did, too, Brose, but it didn't mean as much coming from me as it would from an organisation with someone 's name on it such as Lisa's
GUEST_LisaCopen> We have 2 women who are going gangbusters gathering ideas to also have other churches in their communities start groups, so there is that angle too. There isn't a shortage of people, it's just a few percent from 1 in 2 people in the US having a chronic condition right now. And although medical support groups can have benefits, people often don't leave them really feeling "fed" for the spiritual foundation they need to get through a devastating diagnosis.
Brose> I think it depends on the Pastor too. The Pastor has to have a heart for the sick too
Joy_E.> I can't find anyone at my large church who "gets it." It's frustrating. I would love to have a HopeKeepers at our church. My people just want everyone to be healed.
Brose> Alice, but the info. is coming through rest ministries as far as the material goes.
Joy_E.> I'm not sure if my pastor does. He's kind, but I'm not sure about this.
GUEST_LisaCopen> Pastors receive very little formal training on actually counselling someone with a chronic illness. More seminary training is spent on hospital visitation info and terminal illness info. I have found that I can't MAKE anyone have a heart for chronic illness ministry no matter how much they should. I would never "wish
GUEST_LisaCopen> ... illness on someone" but when a pastor or someone in leadership does have an illness impact their own household it often opens their eyes much more widely!
Brose> I agree there Lisa
Jed> That's so true.
Ron> indeed
GUEST_LisaCopen> I go to a very large church with MANY ministries, and have been there about 5 years. They finally expressed an interest in a HK group and I spoke last JULY and the group had their first meeting just last week (someone else is leading it).. . .
Anna> an angle to consider is if you have many older members in your congregation -- targeting seniors (who are usually suffering some kind of illness) may be a way to get the pastor to at least consider your proposal for an HK group
Jed> Our Pastor (who has just moved over to the USA) was so busy with people who had short-term illnesses, etc he didn't have time to spend on those of us with chronic illness. He wishes he had, but there are only 24 hours in a day.
GUEST_LisaCopen> But this just shows that we often do have to wait for God to lead people to feel that calling. It was amazing how many calls the pastor said he started getting from people who had illness that wanted some kind of support just as he was 'casually considering' looking into it. God showed him the need, even through other friends who were also pastors that had an illness.
Joy_E.> It's sad.
Joy_E.> Would it be a good idea to find others in the church who are ill? Perhaps asking them to pray with us about a group?
GUEST_LisaCopen> I just read a study the other day that said smaller churches put congregational CARE ministries much farther up on their priorities than larger churches. I've found this to be true to.
Joy_E.> Interesting. Is a few hundred large or medium?
GUEST_LisaCopen> Joy, definitely! In fact, leadership is always much more interested if they find that there really is a need and a few people feel called and committed to this area of ministry.
Anna> perhaps it's because there's just so much going on in larger churches, it takes them a while to consider and pray about any new ministries
Brose> I tried at a previous church but I knew if I led it would only be women because the didn't believe in woman leading men so God directed us out now we are in another church where he is setting me up with a Pastor that is behind it we start next month
GUEST_LisaCopen> I can't remember exact stats. but my church is maybe 5000.
guests_George_and_Sharon> Lisa is right when she says pastors have very little training in the area of chronic illness or counselling in this way. Not to toot our own horn, but you might want to refer them to our web site for help and more info at www.personalandeventtraumarecovery.com
GUEST_LisaCopen> great, thank you!
GUEST_LisaCopen> Anyone want to throw another question out?
Brose> God wanted me to lead all not just women and the lost as well not just the body of Christ
Joy_E.> I need to meet more people in my church...it's hard to do when I can't get there as often as I'd like! Yes, I'll keep that website in mind, thanks!
Alice> I feel so many people hold back from "hearing" the call from our Lord -- simply because they are concerned that they might not feel well enough to attend at the time set for the HK meetings. I have to just trust the Lord will let me feel like going.....and i always feel better when i leave the meeting. The people lift my spirits.
Brose> Yes Lisa do you come out and speak at churches?
Joy_E.> I think this would be a great opportunity to get others in the community--not just church members--interested in the Lord!
Anna> Amen to that, Joy!
Brose> Yes Alice, that almost stopped me from leading but God made it clear that I'm called to do it and He'd help me do it!
Joy_E.> I identify with Alice! The fear of not feeling good enough.
GUEST_LisaCopen> Brose, yes, I think a lot of time these "caring" ministries end up being put under the women's umbrella. Women tend to talk openly about personal subjects more often, but that doesn't mean the men don't have the desire or need. Sometimes they need it even more, and it's good for them to be around other men who are suffering. There is FAR TOO LITTLE information out there for men who have chronic illness and how to cope. I'm always interested in hearing more men's perspectives for the magazine, web site, anything.
GUEST_LisaCopen> When I was leading a HopeKeepers group, I had a couple of times I cried all the way there, feeling terrible both physically and spiritually and wondering what in the world I had gotten myself into! We've all been there, it's part of God using us, the surrendering all of our own abilities over to Him and letting Him take over. A hard process, but exciting an hour later when you see what God has done.
Brose> Lisa, how can we get you to come to our church?
GUEST_LisaCopen> Brose, yes I do occasionally talk at churches depending on distance/travel, etc. Email me later, k? rest@restministries.org
Alice> My husband is my "healthy" co-facilitator -- that makes it easier for men to attend. I am blessed - but if others could have a "man" co-facilitator, it might help
Anna> that's a good point, Alice
Brose> ok Lisa
GUEST_LisaCopen> When I led a group it ended up being a lot of women with illnesses and husbands who drove them and stayed. We closed in prayer separately sometimes and I think the men "caregivers" needed more time then the women did! I think each group kind of finds their own place in what there are trying to do and how to best reach each person.
Joy_E.> Lisa, do you know why churches that believe in healing are so reluctant to have a group like this? Yes, the caregivers need help too! My husband gets overwhelmed.
Betsy_J> Thanks, George & Sharon, for your web site. I will check in with you later. I have offered to lead a group, but find myself wondering if I will be up to the regular meetings. I suggested two other ladies in our church who are both professionals (I am a licensed clinical social worker with FMS, CFIDS, one of my friends is an RN with Lyme Disease and CFIDS, and the other is retired Admin Asst. who has MS) serve as co-leaders so we can have consistency. Has anyone else found co-leadership to work? Has anyone else found that churches hesitate to start programs using people with illnesses as the leaders? I like Alice's solution of having a "healthy" husband as co-facilitator... that sounds like a good idea
Alice> As i said, i am just blessed to have a healthy husband -- one who is willing to take this role along side of me. but any other man in your congregations who might feel "called" would work, too.
GUEST_LisaCopen> Joy, I think there are a lot of reasons, not all of them theologically sound in my opinion. :| Too often churches also believe that if people show up on Sunday and "know the Lord" they just need to 'get over it' and 'get on with it.' There are a lot of people silently hurting, afraid to speak up because they will just be told it's their own fault because there is sin in their life. Last week in our community the Christian newspaper had huge full page ads for a speaker who talked about health and healing. It said in bold letters that 80% of illness is caused by SPIRITUAL issues. It blows my mind that this is still a prevalent attitude and upheld as being gospel.
Anna> Lisa, in the HK literature, you recommend meeting once a month. How does that schedule impact any Bible studies the group may be doing?
GUEST_LisaCopen> Co-leadership has worked for many, in fact we encourage it VERY MUCH.
Joy_E.> That is mind-blowing! We've got an uphill battle, but I know the Lord is with us! All of us here & all HK groups!
Alice> amen!
GUEST_LisaCopen> Anna, I think how often one meets is up to the group. I think we mention every 2 weeks as being the best. A month is a long time and weekly can be too often and people skip it thinking "I'll just go next week." Bottom line, I think it's best to try to help your group connect, so even 2 meetings a month and one fun night out or something is great. Groups tend to decide on their own what works. People have such a variety of illnesses and schedules (some home-bound, some working full-time, etc.) there isn't a perfect answer.
Jed> I think Rest Ministries is such a great place, for that reason, Lisa ie being told or afraid of being told it's your fault, your sin
Pat> I am leader for a Chronic Pain and Illness Support Group that meets at my church. We have had as many as 40 folks attends our group and are so appreciative at the time of attendance. However, many do not return and it seems they do not really understand what a Support Group is all about. I get the feeling they expected to be cured and become discouraged when they leave with the same physical concerns.
Regina> I agree with Pat, my attempt failed also has I had no magic cure
SLEEPY> Lisa I left a Family church of 20 years...because I was told that my illness was sin, and unforgiveness. Lisa I am De Lois and I am very proud to be apart of Rest Ministries. It has grown so much.....just dropped in to say Hello.
Joy_E.> The only group I ever went to was secular...& they had someone there each month to sell something! Magnets, chiropractors...etc. ICK!
Regina> Perhaps I missed the beginning, but isn't the idea a "safe place" to blow off steam, and pray and encourage, and then go back to whatever your reality is?
Brose> That statistic is scary co: the story of the blind man how he didn't sin but he was born blind that 'Jesus would be glorified when he healed him
Joy_E.> Does the account of Paul's illness just go over Christians' heads sometimes??? I agree, Regina.. - safe place
Alice> I agree with Carolann -- i wonder if we are bombarding Lisa with too much at once, before she has time to respond.
[HOST_Carolann] thanks Alice, yes we need to slow down a bit folks, thanks for your understanding
GUEST_LisaCopen> Pat, that's great that many are coming! If people are coming occasionally, that can be understandable. It's hard to "admit" that we have an illness and are someone who could actually NEED support (we think, that's not for me). People are also curious and finding out if you'll be complaining, dumping oil on their head, just talking, praying for 2 hours, etc. people need different things. I think the best thing is that people KNOW IT'S AVAILABLE and just knowing your group exists is a comfort that the church recognizes there are needs and they know when they need the support it will be there. People are in so many different places in their emotional/spiritual walk with their illness that not everyone
Louise> I am not Catholic, but I am amazed at the example the Pope is setting for the world, in his suffering. He was quoted as saying he was doing it to show the suffering people that they are not alone.
GUEST_LisaCopen> Louise, I hadn't specifically heard that. that's wonderful
Brose> Joy, Yes Paul exactly
Joy_E.> I just love being here with you, Lisa. I think that's great about the pope too.. And everyone else here too.
Pat> Those who are most at peace even though in pain are those who do know the Lord and I try so hard to get the message to them that the Lord will be faithful and they need to find purpose in the pain. The Lord didn't send the pain but did allow it and we sometimes even talk about the blessings which have come about as a result of their health concerns. I always tell them about Rest Ministries and so many are thankful after visiting the site.
Brose> You know what God told me once when I asked why he said why not you look at Jesus, the disciples, etc...
Alice> I find using Lisa's study books have been a good way to talk about each of our diseases without our having to come right out and admit what our diseases or hurts are.....it has worked well for my HK group. No one feels threatened.
Brose> God tells me it's not about me and well I got him but the lost who do they have to run to when they are sick
GUEST_LisaCopen> I think the best thing we can do is live as joyfully as possible and let our own suffering speak loudly about the power God has by giving us joy despite our circumstances. This is VERY HARD TO DO because people think if we have that much joy we can't really be in that much pain. But life is very hard and eventually everyone does know some kind of pain. then they realize how much pain we have been in and ask us how we stay positive and we have an opportunity to share about god
Brose> You got it Lisa!
Joy_E.> I need to be more "joy"ful!!! :)
Jed> Thanks, Lisa. I was needing reminded of that.
Anna> you've hit the nail on the head, Lisa
Joy_E.> Yep, Lisa, it's hard to do!
Alice> Amen! I can't get over their comments still hurting me, though. Especially when they know i have health issues
Ron> that's it
Anna> That is exactly why I've titled the Bible study I'm writing "A Joyful Heart: Finding Joy in the Midst of the Pain"
GUEST_LisaCopen> It is hard to be, but if we handle pain and act miserable people don't see us as any different than the rest of the world
[HOST_Carolann] and then our pain is basically wasted
Alice> Oh good! i am needing a new study book soon! Great!
Regina> Alice, I know we don't "get over it", but that is when we need to turn to God's grade the most. For ourselves, and for the Try to get over it.
Betsy_J> I keep going back to my special verse, 2 Corinthians 1:3-7 "Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves have received from God. For just as the sufferings of Christ flow over into our lives, so also through Christ our comfort overflows... and our hope for you is firm, because we know that just as you share in our sufferings, so also you share in our comfort." I may not be able to get my family to understand what is going on with me and why I find it difficult to be with them yet find such joy with others who believe as I do,
Pat> Lisa, that's so true. I have had folks tell me they wish they could take a picture of their pain and show people! Those of us in the Support Group know what they are talking about. God Bless You all and thanks Lisa for all you do. Got to go.
Joy_E.> I'm not good yet at being good about my pain sometimes.
Brose> The secret is keeping our eyes on Jesus!
[HOST_Carolann] No Joy, it isn't easy at all. Living for Christ in general is not promised to be easy
Brose> God constantly reminds me keep focused on Me!
Joy_E.> Yes, you're right, Brose. And Carolann...I need to stay focused on Jesus.
[HOST_Carolann] Let's give Lisa a minute to get back on track, time is going fast
Brose> iT'S ISN'T EASY WHEN IN pain but it is the only way we'll come through w/o being bitter and miserable
[HOST_Carolann] you're right Brose
Alice> In Isaiah 48:10 God says "I have tested you in the furnace of affliction. Going through that furnace is worth it for HIM -- but peoples comments still hurt.
GUEST_LisaCopen> Pat, yes, there is a good verse Job says about if only his pain could be weighed, it would out-number the grains of sand on the earth. Since the beginning of time humans have wanted that ability to prove their level of pain so they can have that feeling of validation -- that everyone understands.
Brose> IT'S A PROCESS!
Shadow> Sometimes you feel like you are broken into soooo many pieces that you cant go to God with them all....when you are first diagnosed with an illness...things fall apart...how can we ever go back to God with all the pieces.
Joy_E.> Yes...a process...
GUEST_LisaCopen> I have just a few minutes left and I've been trying to type while Josh wrestles me in my lap, so I just can't stay much longer, but I promise we will do this again soon, okay? Is there another subject anyone wants to throw out here?
Alice> Just to let you know how much we love you, Lisa and how much we appreciate you
Joy_E.> I just thank you for coming! I really, REALLY appreciate you, Lisa!!!
Sheri> ditto
Anna> Yes, Lisa, I second all that and a big HI to Josh!
Betsy_J> Shadow, it comforts me to know that, even if I am feeling broken into a thousand pieces, I don't have to pick them up to take them to God... He picks me up and finds all the missing pieces and puts them back together in the way they are supposed to be for His purposes. I might not be perfectly healthy, but when I trust Him, I am perfectly formed to do whatever...
Alice> I just don't understand how you do all that you do -- yes i do --- IT IS GOD!
Brose> Yes thank you, thank you, thank you Lisa!!!!!!!!
Brose> God bless you abundantly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ron> Is there away we can help you in your ministry Lisa?
Joy_E.> Excellent point, Ron! Lisa? Anything??
Brose> It means a lot to me that you started this wonderful ministry thank you very much Lisa!
GUEST_LisaCopen> Thank you! I would like to ask that you all hold Rest Ministries up in prayer. We are taking a major step forward with our HopeKeepers Magazine and getting it out to about 10,000 people next issue (usually it's about 1200). We're sending it to practically everyone who has been on our mailing list for years that we haven't been able to afford to send it to in the past. It's a major step of faith financially too. On a personal note, continued strength for myself, I've had a rough few months with drug shortages, infections, torn tendon in foot (that healed without surgery thankfully) cortizone in the shoulders, just scheduled an MRI next week for both knees. I've lived with rheumatoid arthritis for
Alice> Would any of us be willing to go to other churches to speak on the HK ministry? I now i would!
[HOST_Carolann] wow that really is a step of faith Lisa - will certainly pray for that and the other needs
Shadow> keeping you in prayer Lisa and the ministry!!!!
GUEST_LisaCopen> Please email me anything at all that you would be interested in doing! it's all very appreciated and needed! We're kind of a "grass root marketing team" :)
Joy_E.> Praying for you Lisa! :) You're pretty incredible!
Sheri> thx Lisa
Anna> Thanks for all your time here, Lisa. My prayers will be with you and your ministry!
GUEST_LisaCopen> Ron, would you be able to end us in prayer?
Ron> ok
Ron> Lord God and loving Heavenly Father, thank you for this time together
Ron> where we can gather and hear of the vision you have given Lisa for Rest Ministries
Ron> help us each one to be a light shining for you as we live with chronic illness or pain
Ron> that in all we do we might honour and glorify you
Ron> Amen
Sheri> amen
Jed> Amen
GUEST_LisaCopen> amen!
Joy_E.> Amen!
[HOST_Carolann] amen. Thanks so much Lisa for being here - it has been great
Brose> Amen!
Alice> We love you, Lisa and appreciate you -- and we pray for other HK groups at our group meetings. Bye Josh!
Brose> thank you
Shadow> Thank you again Lisa for coming and sharing and for your ministry, and for you also Carolann for hosting again today. Prayers are with you both!!
Alice> AMEN!
Joy_E.> Thanks, Lisa!
[HOST_Carolann] you do an amazing work for the Lord
Ron> Remember this chat room is open 24/7. So why not pop in when you are on the net and see if there is someone here you can encourage.
Joy_E.> And Carolann!
GUEST_LisaCopen> Thanks so much for coming-- and thanks for humouring me with my son, too bad this session wasn't during nap time.