1/25/06

[HOST_Carolann] I think we will get started. Welcome again everyone! And a special welcome to Grace Fox who is our guest speaker for today.
[HOST_Carolann] She is here to talk to us about Experiencing God When It Hurts.
[HOST_Carolann] Grace is a speaker, author and former missionary to Nepal and is presently involved in a year round Christian camping ministry in beautiful British Columbia.
[HOST_Carolann] You can learn more about Grace and her chat session by getting her 2 page handout at www.restministries.org/CHAT/handout_fox1.pdf and www.restministries.org/CHAT/handout_fox2.pdf
[HOST_Carolann] Welcome Grace, and I will turn our time over to you.
GUEST_Grace> Thanks! I'm happy to be with you today.
GUEST_Grace> I look forward to hearing your thoughts on today's topic. Ready? Let's go!
GUEST_Grace> We all experience times when our circumstances are painful and threaten to overwhelm us.
GUEST_Grace> We may be in a difficult marriage, in financial hardship, grieving the loss of a loved one, or dealing with relentless health issues.
GUEST_Grace> We sometimes feel as though God has forgotten us.
GUEST_Grace> That's a lie Satan would love for us to believe.
GUEST_Grace> The truth is, God could never forget us. He's with us every moment of every day.
GUEST_Grace> And He entrusts us with trials so that we might experience Him in new ways.
GUEST_Grace> I've been reading a book called, "Knowing God by Name," by David Wilkerson.
GUEST_Grace> In it, the author says, "Almost all new discoveries of God -- all fresh revelations of His Person, nature, and character, are tied to some crisis, some intense human experience."
GUEST_Grace> I found that to be true through some tough times.
GUEST_Grace> My husband and I moved to Nepal as newlyweds in 1982 to work with the United Mission to Nepal.
GUEST_Grace> We were assigned to a remote location about 12 hours' drive from Kathmandu.
GUEST_Grace> We lived in a small Hindu village of about 70 people.
GUEST_Grace> Our house was made of mud and rock with a grass thatch roof. No running water. No indoor plumbing. No electricity.
GUEST_Grace> And I had never camped! Thankfully my husband had been an Eagle Scout!
GUEST_Grace> Believe me, I went through some major culture shock. Some days I didn't know if I'd survive or keep my sanity.
GUEST_Grace> Many days I felt like I was hanging onto God with my nails dug in.
GUEST_Grace> Our first child, a son, was born seven months after we arrived in the village. One day, when he was about three weeks old, I had an unwelcome visitor.
GUEST_Grace> A six-foot rat snake crawled through the door and past my feet while I stood at my kitchen counter. I ran upstairs, grabbed my baby, and exited through an upstairs door.
GUEST_Grace> A neighbor man and a teenage boy killed the snake and flung it over a pole. They paraded it through the village like a trophy.
GUEST_Grace> By the time my husband came home from work later that afternoon, he'd already heard the story. Poor man! He knew his wife hadn't had a good day.
GUEST_Grace> That evening, I sat on his knee and cried. I was in major emotional pain. So homesick, so lonely, and so tired that I just wanted to escape my circumstances and return to the United States. I didn't think I could go on.
GUEST_Grace> As I cried, my husband Gene turned on our shortwave radio. Over the airwaves came the most beautiful sound I'd ever heard --
GUEST_Grace> a male quartet singing the hymn "Great is Thy Faithfulness."
GUEST_Grace> God hugged me through that song in the midst of my emotionally painful circumstances. The lyrics washed over me and reminded me that God had not forgotten me.
GUEST_Grace> Despite my circumstances, He'd promised to be faithful.
GUEST_Grace> From that point on, I chose to let Him do what He wanted in and through my life even if the situation was tough.
GUEST_Grace> He changed my heart completely -- from resenting my situation to embracing it as an opportunity to know Him in a more intimate way.
GUEST_Grace> Twenty months later, God took me to another level of experiencing His faithfulness in a painful situation.
GUEST_Grace> Our second child, a daughter, was born on a Tuesday morning in March 1985.
GUEST_Grace> Three months prior to her birth, however, the mission asked us to move to a less remote location so my husband could do a different job.
GUEST_Grace> We moved to the mission hospital's compound and lived a stone's throw from the hospital itself.
GUEST_Grace> On the day of her birth by C-section, Stephanie was born with hydrocephalus -- too much water on the brain.
GUEST_Grace> She needed neurosurgery immediately to insert a shunt and drain that fluid to prevent brain damage.
GUEST_Grace> There was only one problem--
GUEST_Grace> the hospital's facilities were inadequate to perform neurosurgery.
GUEST_Grace> A doctor withdrew 60 cc of fluid from her head to ease the pressure and buy time.
GUEST_Grace> We knew we had to return to the States immediately.
GUEST_Grace> There were only two flights back to the US within that week. The first was three days later, on the Friday.
GUEST_Grace> When the airline agents found out about our emergency, they said I was not allowed on the plane because I was unfit to travel so soon after having surgery.
GUEST_Grace> They didn't want a three-day-old baby on board, either.
GUEST_Grace> When my husband broke that news, I felt as though my whole world caved in. I feared for my daughter's life (she also had a heart defect and several other problems).
GUEST_Grace> I felt angry at the airline agents, and once again, abandoned by God.
GUEST_Grace> Many people prayed for a resolution to our dilemma. Life shifted into high gear.
GUEST_Grace> Doctors urged my husband to take the baby home by himself. A ticket was purchased and plans were underway.
GUEST_Grace> On Wednesday, we packed our belongings and decided what to give away, sell, ship, or take home immediately. We said goodbye to friends.
GUEST_Grace> On Thursday, we climbed into a Land Rover and drove 12 hours on twisting roads to Kathmandu.
GUEST_Grace> I was flat on my back in the vehicle, taking morphine for pain.
GUEST_Grace> On Friday morning, Gene secured the baby's passport from the American embassy while another doctor took the baby to a mission hospital. He withdrew 40 cc of fluid from her head.
GUEST_Grace> When Gene and the doctor returned, I was able to nurse my daughter one last time.
GUEST_Grace> I tried to memorize her tiny face and features. I didn't know whether she would live until I returned home on the next flight, six days later.
GUEST_Grace> After Gene and the baby left, I laid on my bed and cried, "God, what are You doing? I don't understand."
GUEST_Grace> In the midst of my pain, He hugged me again. He used the same song -- "Great is Thy Faithfulness."
GUEST_Grace> The lyrics once again washed through my mind and reminded me of two things:
GUEST_Grace> First -- that God is faithful. That's His character. He can never be anything different.
GUEST_Grace> Second -- that, no matter what the ending of the story would be, I could trust Him to be my strength.
GUEST_Grace> I returned to the States the following week. Stephanie had already had a shunt inserted and her head was decreasing in size.
GUEST_Grace> But then a heart specialist said she would die within a month because she was too weak to undergo heart surgery.
GUEST_Grace> Thankfully, his prognosis proved wrong. But within her first four years of life, Stephanie underwent 11 surgeries and had meningitis.
GUEST_Grace> We spent many hours in doctors' offices and hospitals.
GUEST_Grace> Each time I felt stressed beyond my own strength, God reminded me of the song. He reminded me that He would be faithful regardless of the circumstances or outcome.
GUEST_Grace> Today, Stephanie is 20 years old and in her third year of Bible college. She still has a shunt in her head and has some neurological struggles.
GUEST_Grace> Life has presented many other challenges. Health-wise, my dad has cancer. My mom-in-law is struggling with advanced Parkinson's disease, and I struggle with arthritis.
GUEST_Grace> I must be careful to keep my focus in the right place.
GUEST_Grace> When life hurts, it's easy to feel like God has forgotten about us. That's especially true if we focus on our circumstances.
GUEST_Grace> But when we focus on His character and what He's revealed to us about His faithfulness, our hope is renewed and our strength is restored.
GUEST_Grace> Now it's your turn.
GUEST_Grace> Do you find that life's difficult places are classrooms for learning more about who God is?
GUEST_Grace> If so, what have you learned about His character?
Hagar> Yes I have learned more & found more...
Hagar> treasure in the darkness..
[HOST_Carolann] When we have problems that is when we turn our attention to God rather than when things are going smoothly
[HOST_Carolann] I have learned that He doesn't always work things out my way
Hagar> than I have ever found scrambling around using the light of my own strength to seek for truth, comfort & love
Ron> He always supplies our needs, usually in Just in Time mode
GUEST_Grace> When He supplies our needs just in time, we're kept on our knees!
Mary_Lou> I have learned that he's very patient as it's taking me a long time to learn what he want me to learn. And when I mess up, he gives me another chance and shows me where I went wrong.
[HOST_Carolann] that's hard though isn't it Ron, because we want to know everything is all laid out and will work out
GUEST_Grace> Yes, we love to have the plans laid out. We want to know the end of the story.
Ron> It can be strain on the system waiting until you get to know God's ways of working
[HOST_Carolann] that "hanging on" part is SO difficult
GUEST_Grace> But God wants us to trust Him no matter what, even when we're walking in darkness.
GUEST_Grace> Amen!
Mary_Lou> Especially when we live a world that emphasizes speed so much!
Ron> an instant society
[HOST_Carolann] yes, "wait" isn't a popular word today is it?
Mary_Lou> We have to have everything NOW!
GUEST_Grace> We want a fast fix to our problems.
GUEST_Grace> But God is eternal and sees things from that perspective.
[HOST_Carolann] Grace I cried when you talked about that hymn on the radio at just the right time - that is SO much like God and shows His personal care
GUEST_Grace> I cried that night, too!
[HOST_Carolann] I can imagine
GUEST_Grace> I really felt as though God hugged me
Mary_Lou> I also realize that, while I think I'm waiting for God to do something, he is waiting for me to do something to -- like say yes to his plan for me even if his plan includes health problems. I found life better when I stopped fighting God for what I wanted instead of submitting to what he wanted.
[HOST_Carolann] that is well said Mary Lou
[HOST_Carolann] He wants our submission
GUEST_Grace> It's all about saying "Yes, Lord."
GUEST_Grace> Without conditions attached!
GUEST_Grace> When we get to that point, we find true rest.
Mary_Lou> Yes, it's hard to have rest when we're fighting everything all the time, including God.
[HOST_Carolann] exactly
GUEST_Grace> Amen to that, too!
Mary_Lou> And when we're fighting in our own strength instead of relying on him.
GUEST_Grace> I've been working on a presentation for a women's wellness conference...
GUEST_Grace> I've discovered that we need to have peace in three areas --
GUEST_Grace> At peace with me (accepting who I am and the way God made me)
GUEST_Grace> At peace with others (emotional well-being)
GUEST_Grace> At peace with God
GUEST_Grace> God is interested in our wellness in all three areas. When that happens, we truly know peace no matter what.
GUEST_Grace> If one of those is out of whack, we struggle.
GUEST_Grace> In the midst of your circumstances, have any of you found especially meaningful Scriptures that remind you of God's faithfulness?
GUEST_Grace> I think many of our struggles go back to a lack of understanding who God is.
Mary_Lou> I have always loved "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" (Phil. 4:13).
GUEST_Grace> Good one.
[HOST_Carolann] I find it good to read verses in the psalms that talk about God's sovereignty and He is in control
[HOST_Carolann] Like one I read this morning Psalm 136 His steadfast love endures forever
Hagar> Isaiah 41:10 Do not fear, for I am with you; do not be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you; I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.
GUEST_Grace> I like Lamentations 3:19-26. The whole passage is great, but verse 22 says, "The Lord's loving kindnesses indeed never cease, for His compassions never fail. They are new every morning; Great is They faithfulness."
Hagar> And forever & always for me Psalm 23 & the Lord's prayer
Hagar> amen
[HOST_Carolann] the key here is to go to God's Word isn't it, which we need to focus our thoughts on rather our circumstances
Mary_Lou> I was trying to find the psalm that talks about how we can't go anywhere and God won't be there. Can anybody help me out and tell me what psalm it is?
Hagar> ps 37:3-5 & Prov (lol) the whole book but especially his words on seeking wisdom
GUEST_Grace> Mary Lou -- Psalm 139
Hagar> I think it is 139...it was David
Bob_m> also read ps 73 about depression causes was a study this morning
Mary_Lou> Thank you! I couldn't find it using my concordance.
Hagar> yes very good one Bob
[HOST_Carolann] I love Psalm 73 Bob!
Mary_Lou> Yes, Psalm 73 is especially good to read when we look at others in the world and think how much easier their lives are.
Bob_m> o good
[HOST_Carolann] and how desperate our situation is
Bob_m> isn't that the truth
[HOST_Carolann] as David says at the end "for me it is good to be near God"
Mary_Lou> It's better to be ill with Jesus than be the healthiest person on earth and not know the Lord.
[HOST_Carolann] amen Mary Lou
Bob_m> good one!
Mary_Lou> But I'm afraid I still have moments when I'd like to be both health AND have Jesus!
Bob_m> but why would a good God do these things
GUEST_Grace> That's the tough question.
Mary_Lou> I realize he is using my problems to teach me a great deal, however.
Bob_m> do all christens
Bob_m> need these troubles
[HOST_Carolann] most times it's not that He purposefully does them as allows them to take place and He uses them in our lives to transform us
Bob_m> to learn about God
Bob_m> hmmm
Mary_Lou> That's a good point, Carolann.
GUEST_Grace> To discover the treasures hidden in the darkness, like Hagar said earlier.
Bob_m> but He my Father
GUEST_Grace> This goes back to the quote from the book I mentioned...
Bob_m> a parent
GUEST_Grace> "Almost all new discoveries of God -- all fresh revelations of His Person, nature, and character...
GUEST_Grace> are tied to some crisis, some intense human experience.
GUEST_Grace> When life is rosy, we tend to go on our merry way and become self-sufficient.
GUEST_Grace> When the tough times come, it's another story. We realize our weaknesses and call on God to get us through the day.
GUEST_Grace> Do you think that's true?
Mary_Lou> That describes me to a "t", Grace!
Mary_Lou> C.S. Lewis said pain is the megaphone God uses to get our attention.
[HOST_Carolann] that is so absolutely true
Mary_Lou> That's how he got mine!
Bob_m> I've been trained to call out in trouble
Bob_m> by religious people
Bob_m> and bible
Bob_m> not just a fox hole GOD
co-host_Debbie> We should call out in times of trouble, but also in our good times...actually we should call out to God all the time!
[HOST_Carolann] God wants us to call on Him but to learn that we need to rely on Him not just hard times but easy times too
[HOST_Carolann] hehehe Debbie, had the same thought
co-host_Debbie> hehehehe
GUEST_Grace> I think there's another factor, though.
GUEST_Grace> Scripture gives LOTS of commands to praise God.
GUEST_Grace> God wouldn't tell us to do that if He didn't mean it.
GUEST_Grace> Praising God in the midst of our difficulties brings honor to Him.
GUEST_Grace> It also moves our focus from us to Him and that gives inner strength, too.
GUEST_Grace> Any thoughts?
Bob_m> whew
[HOST_Carolann] there are probably more commands to praise God than any other kind of command
co-host_Debbie> I agree...for me...music really helps keep my thoughts on God. I play it all the time
Ron> I agree we can praise God in all situations
GUEST_Grace> It's easy to praise Him when we know the end of the story and it's a happy one.
Bob_m> and of His loving kindness is unfailing
[HOST_Carolann] God inhabits the praises of His people
Bob_m> but I'm still hurting
[HOST_Carolann] Bob I don't think it means God will take away the problem
Mary_Lou> It's a paradox, isn't it? That God can love us so much and still allow hurt.
Bob_m> well there are not healings any more
GUEST_Grace> Bob, praise doesn't necessarily take away the pain. But it helps us remember that God is with us and He cares.
Mary_Lou> I think there are still healings, Bob. But Jesus has different plans for different people.
[HOST_Carolann] it is indeed Mary Lou and we need to let God be a God and not want to know all the answers
Mary_Lou> Some people receive their physical healing in this lifetime. Others won't receive it until they reach heaven.
Bob_m> that's hard teaching
[HOST_Carolann] yes I agree Bob
Mary_Lou> I also think there are different kinds of healing. God has healed me emotionally in many ways.
Linda_in_Winnipeg> I agree
Mary_Lou> But he hasn't healed me physically -- yet! He may do that tomorrow. He may do that when I enter heaven. His choice. Not mine.
Tammy> Me too I'm much more able to think today than I was 7 years ago
Mary_Lou> If it had been mine, I would have been healed years ago!!!!
Mary_Lou> But he knows best. And he has taught me so much using pain and suffering.
Tammy> I'm much closer to God today than I was 7 years ago too, I let him take the reins more
Bob_m> so I should not expect a healing but trudge along till the end
[HOST_Carolann] the 2 go together don't they Tammy
Tammy> yes, they do
Mary_Lou> Expect a healing, Bob! By all means! Just expect it when Jesus wants you to have it, not before.
Tammy> I'm in the process now of starting a Hopekeepers Study in my church
[HOST_Carolann] be encouraged Bob that Christ is trudging along right there with you, step by step
Bob_m> its been so long ?
Mary_Lou> For you, it might be tomorrow or next week. But allow for the fact that it might not be until the next life.
Linda_in_Winnipeg> God loves you even if he doesn't heal you
Mary_Lou> How long have you been living with chronic health problems, Bob?
co-host_Debbie> Its all in Gods timing...not ours, and we have to be patient and wait and keep the faith
[HOST_Carolann] in eternity we will have our full and complete healing, allelujah
Bob_m> often think of healing ministries
co-host_Debbie> amen Carolann
Bob_m> of those who come in hope of healing and never get it
Tammy> Many times when I get discouraged I count my blessings. My husband, children, grandchildren, church family
Mary_Lou> You're right, Linda! We shouldn't measure God's love by how much we suffer or whether we get healed.
Ron> He can and does use us through our illness to reach out to others
Mary_Lou> We measure God's love by what he did on the cross.
Hagar> It is hard to trust God as our Father when our earthly parents & those who raised us had great wounds of their own. Yet our Papa in heaven loves us. In comin to know Jesus. I coming to know God's word more & more, & in coming to find, be accepted & loved by God's most faithful children.. we are given reason & after reason to rejoice in the Lord more than suffer in our circumstances. Even though the pain remains, the joy overcomes the evil with good. It is a profound truth that unfolds in God's time & with every tiny act of greater trust on our part. Faith to faith-> glory to glory.
[HOST_Carolann] this is a great discussion, but we have come to the end of the hour and I know some people need to go perhaps, so Grace do you have any final words?
Hagar> amen Mary lou
Mary_Lou> I'm sure you're right, bob, that there are people who go to healing services and come away without healing. That describes me!
Mary_Lou> But I learned not to chase after my healing, but to chase after God and his will for me.
Bob_m> well of course
Mary_Lou> But it's still hard.
Hagar> yes so true. Matthew 6:33
Mary_Lou> It's still hard to be in pain.
Hagar> It is harder to be in pain & feel alone
Ron> remain faithful
Mary_Lou> It's still hard not to live a normal life like other people and I'd be lying if I said I lived in this constant state of joy because of Jesus. I still grumble at him.
Mary_Lou> The good news is, he still loves me in spite of my grumbling.!
GUEST_Grace> Thanks for sharing your hearts with the group this morning. In the midst of pain and suffering whether physical or emotional, let's ask God to grant us a fresh understanding of who He is. He wants that for us!
Hagar> smiles me too Mary lou.
GUEST_Grace> Know you are loved.
[HOST_Carolann] thank you Grace for sharing your testimony of how God has been faithful in your life
[HOST_Carolann] and your encouragement to us
GUEST_Grace> Feel free to visit my website at www.gracefox.com. You can contact me through it, if you like. You're all wonderful!
[HOST_Carolann] thank you everyone for coming today and sharing your hearts too
Mary_Lou> Yes, Grace. Thank you very much for sharing your story and for your affirmation of God's faithfulness.
co-host_Debbie> Thank you so much Grace. I appreciate your encouraging words
Anna> Thank you so much, Grace
GUEST_Grace> You're all very welcome.
Tammy> God Bless you Grace and your ministry. Thanks.
Mary_Lou> Bob -- you hang in there!
Mary_Lou> Don't let the devil get you down!
GUEST_Grace> Bob -- you're not alone!
Bob_m> oh yea
Bob_m> rebuke the devil
Mary_Lou> I always tell myself when I'm feeling miserable that I'm making the devil happy by doing that.
co-host_Debbie> God Bless you all...thank you again Grace and Carolann
Bob_m> just open ending questions
Mary_Lou> So I start to praise the Lord and that makes me feel better and I know the devil HATES it!
Hagar> Yes thank you Grace. & ty Jesus for Grace, her husband & family & their testimony
GUEST_Grace> You go, Mary Lou!
[HOST_Carolann] God bless you Grace and thanks again
[HOST_Carolann] anyone who wants to stay and chat and keep discussing the topic, please feel free