12/7/05

[HOST_Carolann] I think it's time we got started. Welcome again everyone! And a special welcome to Pastor Greg Harvey and his wife Dee who are our guest speakers for today.
[HOST_Carolann] They are going to talk about Managing the Emotional Struggles of Chronic Pain in Marriage.
[HOST_Carolann] Both of them suffer chronic pain and disability and they have grown to see how important it is to help each other to understand each other's challenges and how to cope with the difficulties of chronic illness that can affect marriages.
[HOST_Carolann] Welcome Pastor Greg and Dee, and I will turn our time over to you.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Hello everyone! We are both so happy to be with you all!
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Here's a quick overview of our 20 minute presentation:
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> First of all, we'll share how Dee and I gage each other when it comes to our pain, stress, depression and fatigue.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Next, we'll give you our top 4 areas where, because of our chronic pain, we have to work extra hard at improving our marriage.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> And then a few ideas you can check out later on your own.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Finally, questions and answers.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Sound okay to you?
[HOST_Carolann] sounds great!
Sharon_MM> great
Tammi> Sounds good!
Beenblessed> yes
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> We share this based on a lot of trial and error in our experiences.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> We are still learning greatly and hope to learn from you as well.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> If you would have told us in 1985 that we would end up both disabled and in chronic pain, we would have laughed.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> We were healthy, happy and about to be married.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> The future was bright and exciting. The last 20 years have been very interesting, to say the least.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Professor Janice Kiecolt of Ohio State University said this about pain in marriage: "Pain adds stress into what should be one's stress-reducing mechanism: married partnership and home.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Marriage stress is unique because it basically takes what should be our primary source of support and makes it one of our primary stressors."
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Through our struggles we have come to realize that even if we were perfectly healthy, marriage would still take a lot of WORK from both willing spouses to be successful.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Every marriage has some elements that are less than perfect: Sexual intimacy, money management, spending, priorities, in-laws, children, personal discipline, eating, weight, appearance, communication, etc.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> These elements put stress on any relationship even without health complications.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Add health problems to the mix and these otherwise normal stressors compound and feel larger and heavier to manage.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> That is why so many marriages where one or both spouses are disabled fracture and fail.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Chronic pain makes these very real feelings become ultra-sensitive:
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> For Greg: Feeling useless, unneeded, like education was a waste, unattractive, unwanted by society, guilty for not working to provide, restless, bored, frustrated.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> For Dee: Feeling grotesque, like hands and feet are ugly, apathetic, trapped inside a prison of inflammation, beat up by her own body, decreased appetites for anything other than rest.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Greg has Degenerative Disc Disease.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Dee has Progressive Rheumatoid Arthritis.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> The levels of pain, stress, depression and fatigue fluctuates every day.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Each has a huge impact on our thought processes on how we view ourselves and how we come across to each other.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> And so, we have found it helpful to personally gage OUT LOUD on a scale from 1-10 where we are in each area.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> 1-5= I'm okay, maintaining decently well
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> 6-8- I'm hurting. Not good. I need to use my tools of rest, meds, relaxation, meditation, etc.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> 9-10 = unbearable. Give me space!
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Following are top 4 areas we have to constantly work on in managing our emotional struggles in our marriage.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> 1. Ask and Tell
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Neither of us are mind readers and we need to tell each other where we are WITH WORDS!
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Sometimes, Dee can tell if I am hurting because I get withdrawn and quiet.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> I can tell if she is in a flare by the way she walks, holds her hands and arms.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> But we can't always rely on "reading" each other successfully. Does she need space? I'll give it to her. And in reality, she needs to be held and told everything is going to be okay.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> It would be better if I just spoke up and asked, "What do you need right now?" Simply opening up and asking and telling our need can avoid misunderstandings.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> This does not come as easily as you might think because as humans, we tend to assume the other is thinking one way when it is the furthest thing from their mind.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> If I am in need of anything, I should be okay with just asking her for it and not hoping she will just "eventually figure it out" and then feel hurt if she doesn't pick up on it.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Same with her. She knows that guys do not get hints very well. Just ASK and Tell!
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Number 2: Learn each other's love languages.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Get the book "The Five Love Languages" by Gary Chapman. It's about $12 on Amazon.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> The five love languages are:
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> 1. Quality Time 2. Words of Affirmation 3. Physical Affection, 4. Acts of Service 5. Gifts (presents)
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Dee's love language, or how she receives love is "Quality Time" and "Acts of Service"
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Mine are: "Physical Affection" and "Words of Affirmation".
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> If she is in a bad flare, I know that touch may hurt more than help. Just my presence may be enough.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> She may try to show love to me by cooking and cleaning. But I receive love through "Atta boys" and hugs.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Next. 3- Learn the true meaning of Intimacy
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Intimacy is soul connecting, spirit bonding and heart-melding with each other - not just sex.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Sitting on the back swing together watching the sun set together is very intimate. We take short walks together, I on the scooter and she walking beside me. We talk about everything.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> We don't hold festering hurts inside for very long.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Don't assume anything. Unmet expectations are what cause disappointment.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> 4. Work at Play
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> When you hurt all the time, Recreation and laughter rarely just happen.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> You have to plan for fun times.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Lighten up, Life is too short to be serious all the time!
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Go see a play or attend an outdoor concert. Depression tends to rob us of play.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Choose to do what is needful FIRST and let the good feelings or mood come later. This includes Sexual intimacy.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Alternative methods can be used. Talk to your doctor about books and tapes to assist with this vital area in marriage.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> This is one area where you can constantly grow and improve as long as there is open talk and a willingness to try.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Now, Additional helpful basics:
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Reality check! Know this truth. We will never be able to meet ALL of each other's needs. Period.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> God created us so that only He can bring complete fulfillment. Until we are with Him in heaven, we all carry a sense of dissatisfaction with life regardless of how good we've got it or what we own.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> We have to learn to be content with our own growing personal relationship with God first.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> And then come together to be a couple.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Dee and I are happiest when we are both focusing on meeting the emotional needs of the other rather than trying to get our own needs met.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Cultivate an Eternal Perspective
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Thank God this life is not all there is! Here on earth, we are merely in the dressing room preparing for the big event called eternity.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> All pain will be forgotten then! Having an eternal perspective helps us find comfort because we know we won't always hurt.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Lastly, Ask for help where ever it is needed.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Anti-depressants: Don't think you can just "mind over matter it." If your car's engine needed a tune-up to run better, you would do it.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Your mind and body can be overwhelmed by the pain and they need a helping tool to aid emotional balance.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Talk to your doctor and don't delay.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Talk to a counsellor: The mind is a complex thing. Add to that how the mind interacts with the soul and spirit and you can have a real struggle to find normalcy.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> We all fall off the wagon now and then. Regardless, the key is to learn tools for managing it.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Not fixing the past but picking up where we are now and moving on with tools.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> This concludes our presentation. Now a question to spark discussion:
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> What has worked for you to get your spouse to understand how you feel?
Tammi> Communicating how I feel and/or the stress and pressure I may be feeling.
[HOST_Carolann] my husband likes to write out his feelings on paper for me to read - it works for him, but I prefer face to face
BeenBlessed> I tell my husband I need some time alone with the Lord. He understands then that I need to retreat and need to be spiritually renewed.
Rick> The more intense my physical symptoms are the more abrupt, short, and irritable I am - we have deliberately made it a practice to find out how to be "kind" to each other.
[HOST_Carolann] that is such a great idea Rick
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> In what ways are you kind, Rick?
Rick> In not many ways I'm afraid ::smile but...when really practicing this we start by simply saying, "It sounds like something is really bothering you. Would you like to share it with me?"
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Cool! Great idea. It opens the door to communication.
Rick> Then we always take the time to repeat back in our own words what the other said - because often what I heard is not what she said!
[HOST_Carolann] yes that would be really helpful - gives the other space at the same time
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> And how I receive it is not what she intended?
Rick> And it also gives her a chance to hear how her words sounded to me so she has an opportunity to refine what her feelings really are.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> We do it a McDonald's drive thru, why not in marriage?
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Everybody, finish this sentence: The one thing I like most about my spouse is______?
[HOST_Carolann] he is very conscientious
Rick> Her willingness to practice forgiveness with me.
Tammi> he's a hard worker.
patatcamp_adelphia.net> His integrity and Christian walk
Alice> He always thinks of others before himself.
BeenBlessed> he has great integrity and loves the Lord
Ron> her talents
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Sounds like we have some great spouses!
Alice> Amen!
[HOST_Carolann] a blessing to have that
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> I appreciate my wife's gift of mercy for everything in life, especially for me when I blow it.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Dee says she appreciates my tender, soft heart toward the things of the Lord.
Rick> I'm wondering if we would be so quick to come up with things we like about ourselves?
[HOST_Carolann] usually we are harder on ourselves aren't we
patatcamp_adelphia.net> Dee is able to show you mercy because she has a Source where she can get that mercy renewed!
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> What do you like about yourself as a spouse? Be honest.
[HOST_Carolann] amen Pat
Alice> I agree with Dee - because my husband is the same way -- and that makes him that way with me and other.
[HOST_Carolann] my desire to honour God in our marriage
Tammi> My desire to work hard and keep our home looking nice.
patatcamp_adelphia.net> My faith and understanding
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Dee says: My desire to put the needs of Greg and my family first.
Ron> committed
BeenBlessed> I recognize that sometimes before I speak to my husband about what is bothering me... I need renewal, to see how I can do better before we begin our discussion
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Even when it's not easy.
Rick> my hopefulness, even in the midst of some very trying circumstances. It helps to provide a balance that we sometimes miss.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Have any of you used the gages with pain, stress, depression and fatigue?
Rick> Yes - we've found it to be very helpful
patatcamp_adelphia.net> Please explain further
BeenBlessed> yes but because my husband is healthy, he does not relate well
Sharon_MM> no but I sure wish we had known about it
Tammi> Not yet, but we will.
[HOST_Carolann] never used it but it sure is a head on approach to communication
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> In communicating with your spouse, personally gage where you are on a scale from 1-10 in each area.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> 1-5=I'm okay. Managing decently well.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> 6-8= I'm hurting. Not good.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> 9-10= Unbearable. Give me space.
Rick> I've even kept a calendar of it and have taken it to the doctor to let him see where I am, how it's changed, etc. I was very resistant to doing this at first - but it has proved to be a great tool.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Gage the levels of PAIN, Stress, Depression and Fatigue.
[HOST_Carolann] may I ask Greg and Dee, do you ask each other where you are on the scale in a certain area? Or do you just come out and say it whether the other asks or not
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Both ways, really. Sometimes one will offer it and other times you have to make 'em talk.
[HOST_Carolann] thanks
Tammi> For me, it's usually 1-5 when I'm feeling good . If I'm hurting, it will be 6-8 and I withdraw.
[HOST_Carolann] Tammi that seems to be a common response - to withdraw when hurting
Tammi> Yes, I definitely do that and it takes awhile for me to come out again.
Tammi> I just want to be left alone by everyone.
patatcamp_adelphia.net> We withdraw to protect ourselves AND others!
[HOST_Carolann] which is why Greg and Dee emphasise the need to work at communication, which is good to do
[HOST_Carolann] yes that is so true pat and Tammi, I hear you
patatcamp_adelphia.net> Yes, I agree, but at times it is safer for a temporary withdrawal, especially when it has been communicated that it is needed
[HOST_Carolann] we think we are protecting but we are really doing more damage I think
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> I find myself beginning to isolate myself from others when I hurt. That is not healthy. How do you all get out of it?
[HOST_Carolann] yes that is true I can see that
[HOST_Carolann] a good question!
Rick> I agree, Carolann - I think that we all desire intimacy in our marriage and we can never get there if we don't communicate EXACTLY what we are feeling, fearing, and desiring.
BeenBlessed> I begin with touch
Co-Host_Debbie> each time I withdraw....gets harder and harder to get out of it
[HOST_Carolann] prayer is what gets me out of my downward spiral
Tammi> Getting out if I'm able, getting my mind off of self and praying for God's peace, grace and mercy.
BeenBlessed> to escape the isolation
Tammi> Yes. Being isolated for too long is very depressing.
patatcamp_adelphia.net> Reach out to others with some kind of encouragement.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Dee reminds me that I have to get out of myself and into someone else.
elizabeth> I think it is better to tell my husband how I feel so that he knows why I may be acting strangely and not have to guess. I tend not to give all the details to others not so close to me.
Alice> I tell my husband that it is time for us to go for a ride and get ice cream. (ha-ha!) But, it's true.
Tammi> Yes, Pat, definitely seeking to encourage others.
Rick> When my pain level is high, I tend to see it as being all-encompassing - I force myself to sit quietly for a few minutes and focus on exactly where the pain is, how it feels, etc. After a few minutes of this the pain level will almost always reduce to a level where I can once again move out of the withdrawal phase.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> I have found relaxation therapy to be helpful. I hang by a noodle in the warm pool at the Y and do a mental exercise. Pain decreases in minutes.
BeenBlessed> What can be done at home?
Tammi> Listening to music. I like instrumental CD's, with soft, slow, relaxing Christian music.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Get a CD of ocean waves, lay down on the bed and put yourself there.
[HOST_Carolann] have a hot bath maybe? that can be relaxing
Tammi> Greg, do you have a handout with your talk today?
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> My doc says to totally relax each time I see a certain color.
[HOST_Carolann] there will be a transcript available for anyone who wants a copy
[HOST_Carolann] it will take a couple weeks for Lisa to get it on the web site though
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> I have it in the form of a Word doc I can email if you request it at gaharvey@sunflower.com
[HOST_Carolann] Ok that's great Greg, thanks
elizabeth> Yes I find a hot bath with a book if I'm able to read, followed by a lie down is good. I'm often relaxed enough by then to have a refreshing sleep
patatcamp_adelphia.net> Prayer is the most relaxing thing for me and takes my mind off myself and sets it on a higher plane. The results are splendiferous!
Alice> Must go. Thanks to our guests and our hosts. May God bless you all.
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Pat, I love your use of words.
[HOST_Carolann] that's OK Alice
[HOST_Carolann] We are at the end of our hour everyone
patatcamp_adelphia.net> Thanks!
Tammi> Thanks Greg and Dee. I have learned some new things.
[HOST_Carolann] I want to thank all of you for being here and a special thank you to our guests
[HOST_Carolann] it has been really excellent
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> Fantastic. Thanks for inviting us. We look forward to participating next time!
BeenBlessed> Thank you
Co-Host_Debbie> Thank you so much Greg and Dee!!!!
[HOST_Carolann] you are welcome any time
elizabeth> thank you...I enjoyed my first experience of the chat room
[HOST_Carolann] thanks to everyone for their comments and insight too
Co-Host_Debbie> Thank you once again Greg and Dee and thank you Carolann
[HOST_Carolann] I really good presentation Greg and Dee, thanks so much
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> You're so welcome!
[HOST_Carolann] you're welcome Debbie
Rick> I add my thanks to that of the others, Greg & Dee
Ron> thanks from downunder
patatcamp_adelphia.net> I am grateful for the time you spent in preparation and presentation, Greg and Dee
Guest_Greg___Dee_Harvey> You all have blessed our lives today!