She shares, "I have been married to Russ Thurman for nearly 25 years. We occasionally speak together. We have two teenaged daughters. I helped start Freedom Ministry, the recovery ministry at Thomas Road Baptist Church, Lynchburg, VA, in 2001. I also am a freelance journalist and commentator. I served eight years in the U.S. Marine Corps as a public affairs officer."

4/26/06

HOST_Carolann: well, I think it's time we got started. Welcome again everyone! And a special welcome to Debbie Thurman who is our guest speaker for today.
HOST_Carolann: She is talking today about the Ministry of Reconciliation and how that applies to Christian recovery and healing from emotional wounds.
HOST_Carolann: Welcome Debbie, and I will turn our time over to you.
GUEST_Debbie: Thanks, Carolann.
GUEST_Debbie: Greetings to all! I'll begin by telling you a little about myself. I am going to copy and paste a brief testimony. Please let us know if you are having any problems receiving it.
GUEST_Debbie: I'm a 52-year-old wife and mother of two lovely girls. One is about to graduate from a Christian high school and the other is finishing her sophomore year at a nearby Christian university. We live in Central Virginia.
GUEST_Debbie: Our about-to-turn 20 daughter is moving into an apartment soon with a good friend and fellow student (a girl, of course). So we're facing the half-empty nest. My husband and I celebrate our 25th anniversary in September. And he turns 60 this year! It's quite a red-letter year for us.
GUEST_Debbie: I have served for more than five years now in Freedom Ministry, a church recovery ministry that serves our congregation and the surrounding community. We are blessed to have a Spirit-anointed, well-educated and wise counsellor leading that ministry.
GUEST_Debbie: My specialty is in helping both men and women to overcome depression and anxiety, primarily, from many sources. That was my own 10-year struggle from about 1981-1991. Thankfully, I eventually found healing on every front-physical, emotional and spiritual.
GUEST_Debbie: I also had some pain issues, by the way. Some of you here today, no doubt, are dealing with that physical struggle. Closely associated with it is depression/anxiety.
GUEST_Debbie: My depression had a variety of root causes. I had a severely alcoholic father (recovered now for many years, thankfully) and a mother sometimes depressed and distracted with his problems while trying her level best, with God's help, to raise four children alone.
GUEST_Debbie: Also important, I was molested by an older cousin at age 8. I later accepted Christ at the age of 12 during a revival service. I had some wonderful, godly mentors during my childhood--my maternal grandparents and several Sunday School teachers, especially.
GUEST_Debbie: My depression really was set in motion in my mid-twenties by a failed, brief marriage and its traumatic unravelling. Long story (that's partly why I wrote my first book a few years ago). My current husband and a pastor were my earthly "rock" while Jesus Christ was my heavenly rock.
GUEST_Debbie: The godhead (I have a unique relationship with each one) seemed very distant at times during my deepest pain. But I always sensed at least a tiny pinpoint of light that I desperately wanted to cling to. I knew I was never in total blackness, although I wanted to die at times--to "rest."
GUEST_Debbie: Some very significant spiritual growth came for me during those years in my long, deep valley. I now can look back and see how God was with me (like the poem "Footprints") and I have come to understand, at least in part, why I went through some of those struggles. I see them now as gifts.
GUEST_Debbie: That's my very brief testimony. I prefer mostly to share encouragement and whatever truths God wants to bring to this hour through a question and answer format. You may want to have your Bible nearby.
GUEST_Debbie: I would like to get an idea of what kind of pain (physical, emotional, spiritual) those here today are going through. Anyone wish to share? Also, please feel free to ask any question you want of me.
kp: For me - fibromyalgia for the last 6 years and severe depression for several years also
Laura: I am a bed-ridden mother of four sons and have permanent spinal damage. I have been like this for ten years
kp: though the depression wasn't linked to the fibro - but had other aggravating factors
GUEST_Debbie: Understand, kp.
HOST_Carolann: I would say the worst pain I have suffered in my life has been emotional - that is harder to take and harder to deal with
Alice: Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue, Multiple Chemical Sensitivity - and all the usual things that come with growing older.
GUEST_Debbie: Laura, God bless you!
patiese1: I have RSD since 1/03 and fibro since 1994 during that time my husband fell into a deep depression. He is now better and its my turn I struggle with depression on a daily basis
infinite_8: Will share, after some others, but have had Fibromyalgia ( severe) for 15 yrs, and depression, high blood pressure and sciatica and back surgery went bad, ( bed 6 mons. with body cast) not able to twist, turn or bend) I was a service person medical in Hospital, Nursing, NOW people had to WAIT ON ME) Wow..
co-hostDebbie: Fibro and lupus that is in my kidneys and lungs
Regina: FIbromyalgia, chronic fatigue and depress also here
GUEST_Debbie: I see a lot of fibro and depression.
craftingrama: gymnastic accident when I was 13(48 now) was given all the anti depression drugs of choice till FM diagnosed in 1990, In 1997 had a chemical crying jag in public that wouldn't quit and quit all meds since
infinite_8: And stenosis of spine, etc,, too numerous to mention I guess, think stress in life, has caused much trouble have always been the most UP kind of person, and others commented on it, now do not even want to leave home and HURT way too much
infinite_8: Want to help others. And being here helps me to help, ( I hope) and to BE helped ( both ways) and Without God I could not make it,, He is my strength.
GUEST_Debbie: Amen!
HOST_Carolann: amen Infinte8 - you face incredible challenges - as does everyone else here today
GUEST_Debbie: My younger daughter had a mild gymnastic accident that ended her "career."
GUEST_Debbie: OK, thanks for the intro to pain. Sounds like a book title, huh?
GUEST_Debbie: Does anyone feel hopeless or "in a long tunnel" today? Likewise, does anyone feel encouraged today in your healing journey?
patiese1: Amen ! infinite 8 I understand I was always the up person and now it is a struggle
infinite_8: Yes we all " Have our cross to bear" and it can bring us closer to God, and to fine a NEW route in our path of what God wishes for us.
co-hostDebbie: Feel in the bottom of a dark pit
HOST_Carolann: I am encouraged by God continuing to help me to learn the way to healing
craftingrama: I have recently started showing the same depression symptoms that I had when I was on the drugs but have been clean since 1997 so am assuming I'm depressed if that makes any sense
kp: I am struggling at the moment with the depression side of things .... but can tend to manage the fibro and fatigue
infinite_8: Feel encouraged, most of time, as Know that God has a plan, but at times, do get discouraged, but pull out of it..
patiese1: I am in the long tunnel most definitely I feel like I am stuck
GUEST_Debbie: Does anyone have any troubling issues with medications? Pain meds, antidepressants, etc.?
GUEST_Debbie: I understand stuck, patiese. I was there a along time.
Laura: I am just coming out of a year long flare up of severe pain, I was feeling hopeless but now that the pain is calming I am hopeful again. I am a writer and it always amazes me how I do my best writing when I go through the hardest times.
patiese1: I am on prozac and elvail they don't seem to be helping
Alice: With having Multiple Chemical Sensitivity I deal with the "can't take that medication" all the time. I have the doctors really frustrated.
infinite_8: No one can get my meds, right,, nothing stops my pain,, and one thing leads to another, problem it seems. Want me to have more 'good days' then 'bad' and they are having trouble.
GUEST_Debbie: Yes, I have been there, too, Laura!
craftingrama: I'm petrified of going back on the meds because of the chemical breakdown I had therefore fixing my depression now doesn't seem like an option
Alice: But, I also don't like ending up in the ER every time I try a med they want me to try.
GUEST_Debbie: Meds are a "sticky wicket."
GUEST_Debbie: Some people are sensitive to meds.
patiese1: Hey infinite 8 that can't help my pain either I understand
infinite_8: Yes, so many 'side effects' it can be much better if you did not NEED them unfortunately many cannot handle pain and depression etc without them
GUEST_Debbie: I took two antidepressant for a period of five years back in '88-91.
infinite_8: I can understand how you feel patiese,,, and it can get frustrating at times.
craftingrama: I'm not handling them without but am alone out here so guess its not so bad LOL no one to hear the screaming and crying except God
Laura: I never found the medication to work, if I had company, that was the best medicine of all to lift my spirits
GUEST_Debbie: I am not anti-med, but I see a lot of problems today with overmedicating and drug interactions/side effects.
GUEST_Debbie: Nothing beats godly, human support.
HOST_Carolann: amen
infinite_8: Have heard of some people who can handle it on 'natural meds,' but do not see how I could? But if they can, it is GREAT...
GUEST_Debbie: I do believe in some forms of alternative medicine, but insurance and costs are a problem many times.
GUEST_Debbie: Do you have any favorite Scriptures that speak to your heart in special way? I love Psalm 139, for instance. I often "prescribe" it, along with the whole chapter of Romans 8, for those struggling with self-worth or under personal attack from the enemy of our souls (the "father of lies").
patiese1: amen Debbie sometimes I do other things that make people smile so I can feel better but that doesn't seem to be working anymore
infinite_8: Philippians Ch 4 Vs 13
infinite_8: " I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me"
kp: Jeremiah 29:11
GUEST_Debbie: One of my favorites. It was a "mantra" for me during my darkest times, along with others.
kp: For I know the plans I have for you declares the Lord - plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future
HOST_Carolann: My favorite scripture is have no anxiety about anything but by prayers and supplication, with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God and the peace of God that passes all understanding shall keep your hearts and minds safe in Christ Jesus
GUEST_Debbie: Wonderful verses. Thanks.
infinite_8: That is a great scripture, Carolann
Laura: Debbie, what helped you out of your depression?
GUEST_Debbie: I realized I was not in control, but God was. That is step 1 in the 12 spiritual steps to recovery.
GUEST_Debbie: I let others walk with me.
craftingrama: ok so I 've passed step one now to shut down the memory lane problem that prayer won't shut off
GUEST_Debbie: I gave over my life entirely to Christ.
Laura: Yes, that helps so much, it is something I need to come back to when I get disappointed
GUEST_Debbie: Yes, memories are Satan's way of taunting us.
GUEST_Debbie: When he reminds us of our past, we remind him of his future, right?
craftingrama: am trying
GUEST_Debbie: It really is a three-part process when dealing with pain/depression - physical, emotional, spiritual.
Laura: Yes, and we know that one day we will all be forever happy in heaven
infinite_8: Forgiveness, is a help to me. Past is gone, future not here, ONLY TODAY to think about,, It is hard,, but it helps healing of soul thus body
GUEST_Debbie: Forgiveness is key, but not easy, I know. My molester called me lst year after 43 years and asked me to forgive him!
patiese1: It a constant battle and sometimes I am too tired to fight
GUEST_Debbie: Remember the Lord's prayer. "give us this day our DAILY bread."
craftingrama: patiese I understand that one
GUEST_Debbie: Fatigue is a great spiritual thief, too.
infinite_8: Yes, it is Debbie, that is a really bad, thing to have energy zapped.
HOST_Carolann: fatigue saps us physically and emotionally and spiritually I find
GUEST_Debbie: We have to confess that we all have " sinned and come short of the glory of God."
craftingrama: and combined with loneliness its a war
Alice: Amen, Carolann
patiese1: AMEN ! Craftgrama
GUEST_Debbie: Loneliness.. That's a biggie. We tend to isolate ourselves when depressed.
Laura: Through my being so still, God did a huge work in healing past wounds of neglect, verbal abuse, and molestation. My husband thinks I would have never experienced the emotional healing had I kept my busy lifestyle
GUEST_Debbie: But God is perfecting us and we are fully justified.
craftingrama: or we are forced into isolation because of our illness is not excepted and other family co -dependent problems
infinite_8: Many times People not hurting do not understand and think " Well you look ok" So they expect much more.
GUEST_Debbie: Good point, Laura.
Alice: How do most of you deal with loneliness? That is to be the topic of discussion at my next Hopekeepers meeting.
GUEST_Debbie: No one who has not experience this junk can really understand it God has to give them grace.
GUEST_Debbie: We need to force ourselves to break out of the inertia of isolation sometimes.
GUEST_Debbie: Have you heard of the term "wounded healer?"
patiese1: NO?
GUEST_Debbie: Anybody read a great book by David Seamands called "Healing for Damaged Emotions"?
co-hostDebbie: I have
Alice: I have
infinite_8: NO I have not..
Alice: Heard of Wounded Healer" I mean
infinite_8: Will look on Amazon .com,, maybe there?
GUEST_Debbie: I highly recommend it, along with Robert McGee's "The Search for Significance."
infinite_8: Or book store. of course..
patiese1: No I have not heard of that book
infinite_8: Maybe library would even carry it?
GUEST_Debbie: These are easy to find. Of course, there's humble me and my books
craftingrama: but your workbook is out of print and that's the one I wanted hehe
infinite_8: Think we spend lots more time reading.,....I do,, and when not DOING quite as before we can at least be educated, in things as such and our spiritual life.
GUEST_Debbie: David Seamands, a pastor, talks of "recycling grace." It's what we do to comfort others who are in the afflictions we have known, as Scripture tells us to.
HOST_Carolann: that is such a NEAT way of looking at it Debbie
Laura: I have Debbie, it was the beginning of God healing my past. I thought because I was a new creature in Christ and all things were new that I did not have to deal with my past. I even remember thinking the group to be negative. But one day, before I was injured, I heard deep in my spirit that I was to go. I did not want to be there but was obedient to the Lord and my eyes became open soon after as to why I needed to be there. God is so Good!
GUEST_Debbie: I do have a few copies of the depression journal.
HOST_Carolann: good for your Laura! that's great. And praise God for His grace in your life
GUEST_Debbie: Yes, God has a way of moving us out the door when we need it.
GUEST_Debbie: Anyone here dealing with perfectionism or control issues? (Fess up, now. We're only as "sick" as our secrets). I have had those things to deal with in my life.
kp: I have always struggled with perfectionism
HOST_Carolann: the Lord has been showing me how much I have wanted to be in control - wow - it is at the root of so many problems isn't it
GUEST_Debbie: It is a common problem, especially for Christians.
GUEST_Debbie: Also, legalism from our church experiences (sometimes) can be a problem.
kp: A friend tried to get me to accept the 'good enough' principle
patiese1: I think people expect me to be perfect but that's not going to happen LOL
craftingrama: perfectionists with an obsessive compulsive neat freak daughters (apparently this was a result of the molestation that happened to them)
GUEST_Debbie: Tell us more about that, kp.
infinite_8: Yes, legalism puts pressure on and stress not helpful.
GUEST_Debbie: Yes, sexual abuse can lead to control issues, big time.
Laura: I use to try to be perfect, they use to call me super mom, then, when I could do nothing physically anymore I thought I would die. I have had to learn that "good enough will do"
kp: just that ... when you have done your best at something .... rather than becoming super critical of it as I tended to do - accept it as 'good enough'
Alice: I have found since having these illnesses that I was the only one expecting perfection from myself - others weren't. They love me the way I am, and however I might become. I've been told that.
kp: It can be quite liberating to do that
HOST_Carolann: we are our harshest critics aren't we
co-hostDebbie: yes we are
craftingrama: or our family is
GUEST_Debbie: Does anyone see your affliction as a gift? (Good point, Alice).
GUEST_Debbie: Family issues, We should come back to that.
HOST_Carolann: I do actually though I would never tell anyone that - they would think I'm nuts
co-hostDebbie: It can help us develop perseverance (James 1)
GUEST_Debbie: Yes!
craftingrama: gift oh do I have to work on that one now too LOL
kp: yes - there is a service now that I am able to do for the Lord ... which would have been less likely if I had not become ill
HOST_Carolann: amen Debbie
Laura: Yes, that even in our deepest despair, there is joy in the morning, and that this too shall pass
kp: I feel that the Lord has been teaching me to focus more back on Him and less on my circumstances so that I can gain more of His perspective
Alice: I'm not saying that I don't expect the HK people in the group to help me in return. I still tend to focus on myself at times -- when I hurt -- it is ME HURTING.
HOST_Carolann: wow kp - that is awesome
GUEST_Debbie: "I can do all things through Christ" means in whatever circumstances we find ourselves, right? Have you ever heard the expression, "what are you doing "under" the circumstances? LOL.
craftingrama: the main thing I've been learning this past little while is I can't do it by myself but WE (as in God and me ) can do it and that was a heck of lesson I had to learn the hard way
patiese1: Wow that is alot! It gives me something to pray about! Not like I don't have enough to pray about Hahaha
HOST_Carolann: that is a huge lesson craftingrama - so important
GUEST_Debbie: God is our "Abba," our daddy we need to crawl into his lap sometimes when we are hurting, don't we?
GUEST_Debbie: We need each other. Read Eph. 4:25-32.
infinite_8: It is the perception of your situation and how you deal with it, and if you still can glorify the Lord in the TEST, and be there for others. ( When you do for others you do for Christ)
GUEST_Debbie: Suffering is not politically correct anymore, is it?
GUEST_Debbie: We think we are never to have pain (Not you folks, of course).
craftingrama: I still have a problem with the daddy part I guess I don't feel God is a daddy as all the daddies in my life left their kids and I don't want God to leave me. plus I have a problem with that in other respects too
GUEST_Debbie: I had daddy issues, too. I understand.
infinite_8: Yes, we do,, think we should not have pain,, we expect to always be well, and never CHANGE,, which cannot be true.
GUEST_Debbie: Knowing God as our safe father takes the work of grace and the Holy Spirit.
infinite_8: craft, that gives you 'fear ' too then,, and with the fear of losing love causing stress and pain also.
GUEST_Debbie: Any specific questions for me?
craftingrama: yuppers that hit the nail on the head infinite
GUEST_Debbie: FEAR: False Evidence Appearing Real.
Alice: We can think of God as "our daddy" such as in Ozzie and Harriet, and/or Happy Days.
infinite_8: He is with us ALWAYS.
patiese1: How do you start to get out of the mire of depression
GUEST_Debbie: God is also our tough love daddy.
kp: when the tunnel seems long ... what is your biggest spur to move you on into the light?
GUEST_Debbie: Patiese, you start by taking the first step into Abba's arms.
GUEST_Debbie: Prayer, prayer, prayer!!!
craftingrama: I know and its a hard lesson I'm learning since I lost everyone else I value in my life and its hard to trust that He won't want to leave me but we're working on that one daily
infinite_8: Cute Alice...the nice family of close knit love,, ( Ozie and Harriot,, a soft place to fall) that is how we do WANT it,, and can in Christ.
Alice: kp -- you need a Christian support system to turn to here on earth - along with our Lord.
GUEST_Debbie: God is still healing me through our prayer conversations. They are a symphony.
GUEST_Debbie: One godly friend can be a wonderful support.
patiese1: I have that I guess my faith is not strong enough? I keep praying but it seems like He is not listening
GUEST_Debbie: What do you want Him to say?
infinite_8: Our parents have made mistakes, think many, and we probably have done that too, not knowing it, and some make worse ones, and maybe because they are REPEATING things they had done to them. ( Do not know any other way I think) Cannot seem to break the curse of it.
GUEST_Debbie: Yes, there is a generation curse of sorts in our families.
infinite_8: though and it grows really big, with TIME.
patiese1: I am not sure what I want to hear.
GUEST_Debbie: There are no simple or pat answers to our pain. But Jesus Christ knows every pain in the universe.
patiese1: I have that much faith it just gets battered around when I have bad days.
GUEST_Debbie: How about "I love you as you are.'?
Laura: I find also that I have to decide to call some one even if I don't feel like it. Talking it through helps so much.
infinite_8: Even every hair on our head,, ( that is something else)
kp: nice one Debbie
infinite_8: Think we all do, I do,, patiese
patiese1: Yea, that's true but I also want to know where I am to go from here. I have the super mom complex I guess
HOST_Carolann: well it's been quite an hour of discussion but our hour is just about up - Debbie did you want to share any closing comments or information?
GUEST_Debbie: Christ can break the curse. Let me leave you with John 17: His high priestly prayer in which he prays for the disciples but for all of us. powerful.
GUEST_Debbie: We are reaching out to each other day, and that is awesome.
infinite_8: Deb this has been so helpful,,,,,, Have enjoyed it so much, and what each one has offered today.
patiese1: Thanks so much everyone it's nice to know I am not the only one with this problem! That's comfort
Alice: Thanks so much Debbie and Carolann. Its been another great hour in my week.
HOST_Carolann: you are so welcome
GUEST_Debbie: Just a brief word about my books, for those who are interested: I have written two books about depression issues, both rather different in scope.
GUEST_Debbie: The first is "From Depression To Wholeness: The Anatomy of Healing(2000). This is a distinctly Christian book with elements of my life story and much Scripture woven throughout.
GUEST_Debbie: The second is "Outsmarting Depression: Surviving the Crossfire of the Mental Health Wars (2004). This book is written for all audiences. Its purpose it to address issues arising out of a confusing mental health system and common problems with treatments and medications.
kp: Are they obtainable in the UK ?
GUEST_Debbie: I also have authored or co-authored several Christian teen books/devotionals. You may learn more about these and the others at my Web site, www.debbiethurman.com. They are available through any bookstore by order, via my Web site or via Amazon and other online stores.
GUEST_Debbie: Yes, some are in the UK, vis Amazon.
HOST_Carolann: that's great Debbie! Thanks SO much for being here today
GUEST_Debbie: Thanks for having me. God bless!
co-hostDebbie: Yes...thank you for coming today Debbie
GUEST_Debbie: I am praying for you all.
HOST_Carolann: God continue to bless you in your valuable ministry
kp: thank you so much Debbie and Carolann
GUEST_Debbie: Thanks.
HOST_Carolann: you're welcome
HOST_Carolann: and thank you all for being here today and sharing your hearts
Alice: Good bye all. Keep the faith. God is and always will be on the throne! And, he cares! God bless.
HOST_Carolann: amen Alice
GUEST_Debbie: Amen!