5/10/06

HOST_Carolann: OK, then on that note we'll begin. Welcome again everyone! And a special welcome to Dr. Michael Turner who is our guest speaker for today.
HOST_Carolann: He is talking about 7 Things Every Person Living With Chronic Pain Should Know.
HOST_Carolann: Dr. Turner has a passion for helping people live a healthy life, to the glory of God. He is particularly interested in fitness, Alternative Medicine, and nutrition.
HOST_Carolann: Welcome Dr. Turner, and I will turn our time over to you.
GUEST_Michael: Thank you! This is my first time doing a chat; very excited to share with you all
GUEST_Michael: Just a bit about me...
GUEST_Michael: I am completing my training in Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation at the Mayo Clinic.
GUEST_Michael: I often work with patients in chronic pain from different causes
GUEST_Michael: Also, I have some experience with chronic pain myself; specifically, 2 years of foot and ankle problems that prevented me from anything beyond a slow walk.
GUEST_Michael: I have entitled the presentation "7 Things Every Person Living with Chronic Pain Should Know"
GUEST_Michael: What I would like to do is have us discuss what I believe are 7 crucially important things to understand
GUEST_Michael: These represent a distillation of the best approaches I have seen work with patients
GUEST_Michael: Let me just list them here for us an as overview. Then I'd like to open the floor for discussion regarding each one
GUEST_Michael: Sound okay?
HOST_Carolann: great!
co-host_Debbie: yep
GUEST_Michael: 7 things every person living with chronic pain should know:
GUEST_Michael: 1. Jesus knows all about it.
GUEST_Michael: 2. The importance of HUMOR
GUEST_Michael: 3. The importance of COMPANIONSHIP
GUEST_Michael: 4. Don't cancel, MODIFY.
GUEST_Michael: 5. The importance of MODERATION.
GUEST_Michael: 6. The importance of EXERCISE
GUEST_Michael: 7. Take the focus off the pain; the power of DISTRACTION
GUEST_Michael: Let's start with number one: Jesus knows all about it.
GUEST_Michael: Do you ever wonder if God understands? If He cares?
GUEST_Michael: I know I have! That's why I find these verses so powerful, so striking.
HOST_Carolann: I hear that kind of question alot from people with pain - wondering where is God
GUEST_Michael: consider this description of Jesus..."He was… a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
GUEST_Michael: Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him and afflicted. " (Is 53:3-4)
GUEST_Michael: wow-- that strikes me... "a man of sorrows and familiar with suffering...": What do you all think of that?
Mary_Lou: I think that makes him my kind of guy!
HOST_Carolann: He definitey knows that physcial suffering is like because He suffered terribly
kp: He has experienced pain and so knows its stresses
HOST_Carolann: we can't suffer more than He ever did
GUEST_Michael: Agreed! ANd consider this verse: "During the days of Jesus life on earth he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears…" (Heb 5:7)
GUEST_Michael: wow.. he prayed with LOUD CRIES AND TEARS..."
HOST_Carolann: an anguish in His heart and soul too, not just His bodily pain
GUEST_Michael: very true!
GUEST_Michael: very interesting.. what do you all think of this verse: "Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered…" (Heb 5:8)
kp: He didn't expect preferential treatment ... but followed through in obedience so that we could do the same
HOST_Carolann: I guess we don't like to hear that - it can make some people think they are suffering because of something wrong they did
HOST_Carolann: like some of the Pharisees thought the blind man was blind because of his sin
GUEST_Michael: CarolAnn, I know what you're saying, but I didn't get that from this verse. What I understand is that 1) suffering is no proof that God doesn't love us,...
GUEST_Michael: and 2) there is something we can learn from suffering. In God's plan it is not wasted; he can use it to grow obedience in us
GUEST_Michael: since "although he was a son" he still suffered
HOST_Carolann: I agree, I just mentioned that ebcause some people say that
reni: in the "church" many times people point to those with illness as sinful
GUEST_Michael: This is comforting to me.. to wasted pain or tears in God's economy!
Alice: The Israilites learned obedience through suffering -- becasue God loved them
HOST_Carolann: amen!
GUEST_Michael: Amen!
GUEST_Michael: How about this final verse to show us that Jesus knows all about our pain...
GUEST_Michael: "In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering." Heb 2:10)
GUEST_Michael: Any last comments on point #1 Jesus knows all about it...
reni: He does love us even if we are ill
GUEST_Michael: Amen!
HOST_Carolann: absoutely reni!
reni: just other people sometimes dont
Maggie: People don't understand the illnesses they can't see
GUEST_Michael: Well, let's move to #2 The importance of HUMOR
GUEST_Michael: We all like to laugh and we understand that it makes us feel better.
GUEST_Michael: What's interesting is how profound this effect can be:
Maggie: My husband is a great one for getting me laughing
GUEST_Michael: 1) It helps muscle relax
GUEST_Michael: 2) It releases nitric oxide, which is a molecule that dilates blood vessels, thus, improving blood flow.
GUEST_Michael: 3) It may boost immune system function.
GUEST_Michael: What do you think of that?
HOST_Carolann: it does feel good that's for sure!
reni: in Proverbs somewhere it says that it is medicine to us
HOST_Carolann: yes that's right reni - laughter is good medicine
kp: it obviously gives weight to the saying ...'laughter is the best medicine'
Maggie: I didn't know there were so many benefits to laughter
HOST_Carolann: God must have designed it that way for us
reni: yes
kp: dilating the blood vessels .... is that why you go red when you laugh?
GUEST_Michael: yes!
Alice: My last HopeKeepers meeting was about the benefits of laughter - we learned lots -- and have been putting it to practice.
HOST_Carolann: my face always goes beet red when I laugh
kp: me too carolann
GUEST_Michael: Alice, good for you..
Alice: My face does too.
reni: a good belly laugh always makes me feel better
HOST_Carolann: yes it does
GUEST_Michael: For more information, I recommend this website www.helpguide.org/life/humor_laughter_health.htm
GUEST_Michael: Any last comments before we move to idea #3?
Alice: Laughter is like "inner jogging!"
HOST_Carolann: hehehe, that's good Alice
reni: thats a good one Alice!
GUEST_Michael: Allright, idea #3 The importance of COMPANIONSHIP
GUEST_Michael: Living with pain becomes isolating
HOST_Carolann: yes indeed
GUEST_Michael: You may not feel up to arranging social outings and friends may not be interested in modifying their expectations.
reni: yes
GUEST_Michael: This, of course, can be quite frustrating and discouraging!
HOST_Carolann: yes
GUEST_Michael: I just want to encourage you to make time for companionship, in whatever form
reni: it adds to the depression cycle
GUEST_Michael: Maybe just a phone call. Maybe buying a pet. Maybe just sitting on a bench at the park and watching children play.
GUEST_Michael: This is SO VITAL for all of us because, as humans, we are social creatures.
GUEST_Michael: And we know, scientifically, that the burden of physical pain is made worse by isolation.
Maggie: I keep connected to people thru email
reni: many times i find myself isolating myself and i know it is not healthy but is hard
HOST_Carolann: it does take a bit of effort reni, that's for sure
HOST_Carolann: I guess we can't sit back and wait for companionship to just happen to us somehow - we need to seek it out in some way
GUEST_Michael: Agreed. Easier said than done, yet important
Maggie: Email is fine but there is nothing like a hug
GUEST_Michael: Let's move to the next topic: 4. Don't cancel, MODIFY.
GUEST_Michael: The idea here is to never cancel something you plan to do -- just modify it.
GUEST_Michael: . This closely relates to the previous idea--the importance of companionship. Let me explain.
GUEST_Michael: Let's say a friend invites you to dinner.
GUEST_Michael: As the time draws near, your pain flares and you just don't feel up to it. What to do?
GUEST_Michael: Canceling is certainly understandable, but what are the consequences?
GUEST_Michael: A) You deny yourself an opportunity to feel better.
reni: call and cancel is what i do a bunch
GUEST_Michael: You miss an opportunity for enjoyment. For companionship. For prayer. For a hearty laugh. For a delicious dessert.
reni: amen
GUEST_Michael: These are things that EASE pain. These are the best medicines!
GUEST_Michael: As you sit at home--your pain made worse by isolation--are you really any more likely to feel better than if you were out?
reni: u are so right
GUEST_Michael: You allow pain to be in control, instead of you.
GUEST_Michael: If you are frequently canceling plans you make because of pain, then, in reality, pain is in control of your schedule.
HOST_Carolann: an excellent way of looking at it!
reni: u are very empowering thank u
GUEST_Michael: Now, none of us likes to feel powerless
Mary_Lou: One time I cancelled dinner and a movie with friends. They ended up bringing food and a movie to me so I could be comfortable at my place and still enjoy their company, the food and the movie.
HOST_Carolann: I have found that even at the time I don't want to go out, when I do, I am always glad I did and feel better
Maggie: You would absolutely feel better if you go
reni: pain brings to mind taking our choices and power away though at first sight
GUEST_Michael: Amen!
HOST_Carolann: sounds like good friends Mary Lou
Mary_Lou: yes, I'm blessed to have them.
GUEST_Michael: This is what happens when we defer to pain: we give it more and more power. It grows and grows into this monster that, like a bad boss, is always hovering over your shoulder and signing-off on your decisions.
reni: yes
GUEST_Michael: . "I'd love to go to the movies tomorrow, but I'm going to have to check with My Pain first."
reni: funny
GUEST_Michael: That's no way to live! Take back control!
HOST_Carolann: - sounds horrible way to live
GUEST_Michael: ANd finally, C) friends feel alienated
GUEST_Michael: As we repeatedly cancel, the natural consequence is that friends stop inviting us. Simple as that.
GUEST_Michael: . Of course, since we need companionship, this is a horrible pattern to get into.
HOST_Carolann: for sure
GUEST_Michael: What's the solution? Never cancel, just MODIFY
Maggie: That's right
Alice: But would you agree there are those who live with chronic fatigue along with the pain, and when we force ourselves, then we really do feel worse the next day -- and sometime many days afterwards.
GUEST_Michael: Maybe you can't go out for a full dinner; try drinks or appetizers. Maybe take your own car in case you have to leave early.
Alice: It's sometimes all i can do to get ready for church then i am always on the couch the next day.
GUEST_Michael: Yes, Alice I do agree. It's about modification and moderation, not pushing too hard.
HOST_Carolann: maybe Alice you force yourself to do too much - maybe can still modify? I don't know
GUEST_Michael: The idea is that, if you are invited out, please, please, please, DO NOT CANCEL the engagement.
GUEST_Michael: It's amazing how much better you'll feel once YOU are back in control of your life.
reni: yeah i feel in more control of the pain
GUEST_Michael: . Let's say you determine, "hey, I'm gonna take a walk today."
GUEST_Michael: And then, no matter how you feel, let's say you find a way to make it happen (even if it means just 3 steps outside!)
GUEST_Michael: You're gonna feel GREAT because you are back in control, and you refuse to be thwarted. You bend, but you don't break. You roll with the punches, but you don't collapse.
GUEST_Michael: You are living again, and you're not asking Pain for permission!
GUEST_Michael: Any last thoughts on that topic?
Alice: I do modify and i do still go and do -- i just know i will pay the price the next day
GUEST_Michael: Good point Alice. You anticipate our next talking point #5 The importance of MODERATION.
GUEST_Michael: "All things in moderation." These are wise words
Alice: Hopekeepers was last night, - today i feel like an old rag. I don't mean to put down what you are saying as i do always feel better after going out - for a while.
HOST_Carolann: maybe the modifying for you Alice is to have the person come to you insetad of you going out?
Mary_Lou: I'm the same way, Alice. I have to decide if the trade-off is worth it, do an activity and have more pain or not do it and have less pain.
Alice: What you are saying is good advice
Alice: For most it will work so i say, go for it.
reni: i had to keep modifying so i could do somethings
HOST_Carolann: or modify by limiting the number of activites
reni: loike i got a wheelchair for long distances
reni: i take pillows to prop me and extra meds with me to help
GUEST_Michael: great example of modification, reni
Alice: So do i Reni, on both things. Wheel chair going with me tomorrow on our anniversary trip just so i can go and do more things on the trip.
reni: bless u Alice keep trying
GUEST_Michael: Great examples... Next idea is The importance of MODERATION.
GUEST_Michael: When you live with pain, you experience bad days and good days. On the good days, there is a tendency to want to "make up" for lost time
GUEST_Michael: . "I'm going to clean the WHOLE house." Or, "I'm gonna do ALL the Christmas cards today."
reni: yes
HOST_Carolann: true
GUEST_Michael: You may feel guilty, lazy, and self-critical for how "little" you've been getting done lately, and once the time is right, boy are you ready for work off your guilt!
HOST_Carolann: hehehe
GUEST_Michael: Careful! Moderate yourself; otherwise you enter a vicious cycle: too much exertion, followed by a crash, followed by guilt, followed by renewed zeal to "get something done," leading to too much exertion. Yikes!
Maggie: how true
kp: I'm always making unrealistic targets ... I must learn from this
GUEST_Michael: Moderation says, "I won't do everything, but I will do something."
HOST_Carolann: it seems to be a slow process doesnt it kp
kp: yes Carolann
GUEST_Michael: On the flip side, it also says, "I'm not going to do nothing; I will find a way to do something."
Maggie: I've learned to clean one room at a time
GUEST_Michael: Not too much, and not too little. Whether with exercise, housework, or socializing -- that's the idea of moderation. Any thoughts?
Mary_Lou: Learning to pace myself has been one of the biggest challenges I have had to face as a chronic pain sufferer.
reni: even with regular people with no pain issues moderacy is the best policy
HOST_Carolann: and only we can know what moderation means for us - not compare to someone else
HOST_Carolann: me too Mary Lou
Alice: Yes, me too Mary Lou
HOST_Carolann: I battled self imposed guilt that I was lazy
kp: I decided to build lists of 'things done' rather than work from lists of 'things to do' .... its much more encouraging
kp: and can surprise you when you see how much you've achieved
Alice: Good point Carol ann
GUEST_Michael: Good point kp. I love that suggestion
HOST_Carolann: good point kp!
Maggie: I like that
reni: me too
Alice: Really good kp
GUEST_Michael: yeah, seems like my "to do list" never ends; it can get discouraging
kp: that's right Michael and I know mine were always unattainable .... so this way I get a little boost
HOST_Carolann: things not getting "checked off" fast enough
GUEST_Michael: Here's topic #6 The importance of EXERCISE
GUEST_Michael: All of us know that exercise is good for us, but the gap between theory and practice often seems unbridgeable.
GUEST_Michael: My goal is to encourage you by highlighting a few facts you may not have considered:
GUEST_Michael: 1) When you exercise, you release substances in your brain that RELIEVE PAIN.
GUEST_Michael: These "endorphins" are natural pain killers and they are more potent than any medication. And the best part is that your brain has a whole pharmacy full of them.
GUEST_Michael: This is why soldiers who have suffered horrible battle wounds may continue to walk, talk and not be overwhelmed by pain.
GUEST_Michael: God's protection in such a circumstance is the release of a flood of pain-numbing substances into your nervous system.
GUEST_Michael: 2) Exercise improves mood
GUEST_Michael: Besides the aforementioned pain relief, endorphins also elevate mood.
GUEST_Michael: 3) Exercise prevents further deterioration.
GUEST_Michael: You hurt, so you don't exercise. You don't exercise, and your muscles and bones get weaker. Your muscles and bones get weaker, so the next time you exert yourself you hurt even more
GUEST_Michael: Sound like a vicious cycle?
GUEST_Michael: Inactivity and pain is a vicious cycle that feeds on itself and spirals downward toward decreasing levels of function. Not fun.
HOST_Carolann: certainly does
Maggie: It sure does
GUEST_Michael: The answer is to come up with some kind of exercise that you can engage in that is FUN, that is MODERATE, that is SUSTAINABLE.
GUEST_Michael: This may require some creative thinking and some serious modification. No problem-you are up to the task!
GUEST_Michael: Don't be hard on yourself - any exercise is helpful, no matter how seemingly insignificant in comparison to what others can do.
GUEST_Michael: To read about exercise and fibromyalgia check out this site: http://familydoctor.org/061.xml
GUEST_Michael: To read about exercise and rheumatoid or osteoarthritis try these: www.doctorturner.org/ArthritisExercise.html
www.niams.nih.gov/hi/topics/arthritis/arthexfs.htm#2
GUEST_Michael: Any thoughts?
HOST_Carolann: for my condition exercise has been extremely valuable to decrease pain
GUEST_Michael: Great!
GUEST_Michael: Lastly, idea #7
GUEST_Michael: Take the focus off the pain (the power of DISTRACTION)
GUEST_Michael: What is there in your life that reminds you of your pain? Perhaps consider getting rid of it.
GUEST_Michael: You know what? For many people, their SPEECH and LANGUAGE patterns actually serve to remind them of their pain.
GUEST_Michael: Is it the first thing you mention to others?
HOST_Carolann: probably by complaining alot?
Maggie: Positive affirmations really help
GUEST_Michael: You may be attempting to engender sympathy, which is understandable..
Alice: Mostly when people ask how are you which is such a common greeting.
GUEST_Michael: But the problem is that is just reminds you of how bad you are feeling
GUEST_Michael: There are way's to give an honest answer to "how are you?" without dwelling on your pain (thus reinforcing it)
GUEST_Michael: How about "I'm managing. And you?" or "Every day is a gift."
Alice: I have found that they don't really want you to expound - so i don't anymore. I just say "I;m going to be fine.
HOST_Carolann: that's true Alice - it's just a formality with most people
GUEST_Michael: Alice, I think that's true
HOST_Carolann: if I say something like "I'm OK" people ask "JUST OK?" as if there's something wrong with that
Alice: Yes, Carolann, and it can even be people who know what you live with daily.
HOST_Carolann: yes usually is
GUEST_Michael: CarolAnn... Oh, that's terrible. Very rude of them
HOST_Carolann: I know
kp: yes that's happened to me also Carolann
GUEST_Michael: Gets into the fact that we have a hard time being honest about the stuggles we all go through
Alice: It happens a lot, Michael
GUEST_Michael: And I think one of the worst things is when it becomes stigmatized for a Christian to struggle. I mean, come on! We are fighting a spiritual BATTLE here.
GUEST_Michael: Well I greatly enjoyed our time. For free health information, including your guide to the best health sites on the internet, try my website: www.doctorturner.org I trust, and pray, that you may find it helpful
HOST_Carolann: yes we are at the end of our hour and I know people do need to get going. Any final thought Michael?
HOST_Carolann: this has been excellent and thank you SO much
GUEST_Michael: It was a pleasure. Very best wishes to you all.
co-hostDebbie: Yes Michael...this was great...thank you!
Alice: Thanks Michael, and everyone. As usual it has been a very helpful hour.
HOST_Carolann: thank you all for coming today too and your participation
GUEST_Michael: And thank you, Carolann, for organizing i t
co-hostDebbie: Thank you Carolann!
HOST_Carolann: you are very welcome my pleasure