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9-11-06: MORNING- 9 a.m. -10 a.m. Pacific- 11 a.m. - 12 p.m. Central - 12 p.m. - 1p.m. Eastern Should I spend money on this? Helpful principles for evaluating that new remedy you’ve been hearing about. Michael Turner, MD
Visit his web site | Get the handout for the chat below with extra information
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HOST_Carolann--- Welcome everyone again to the first Invisible Illness Week chat session. Our speaker today is Dr. Michael Turner and he is speaking on guidelines to spending our money on medical treatments. Dr. Turner's medical practice includes a particular interest in nutrition, fitness and alternative medicine.Besides having a firm spiritual foundation for better health, he also believes prevention is better than cure, the body has the power to heal itself, and there is an appropriate use of medicine and technology." Welcome Dr. Turner, and I turn our time over to you.
GUEST_DRTURNER---Thank you! Glad to be here again. I participated in a chat session earlier and had an absolutely wonderful experience. Being interested in nutrition and Alternative Medicine, I frequently find myself evaluating certain non-traditional therapies, herbs, or dietary supplements - both for personal and professional use. The bottom line question is: "Should I spend money on this? Should I tell my patients to do so?" We need to balance the desire to get the best possible care against the need to be a good steward of our time and money, and to be safe. What I would like to do is have us discuss some strategies for accomplishing this goal, some points to keep in mind that will help us think responsibly about managing our care. " I have entitled the presentation ""Should I spend money on this? Helpful tips for evaluating that new remedy you've been hearing about."Let's begin.Let me first list them here for us an as overview. Then I'd like to open the floor for discussion regarding each one. 1. "What have I got to lose?"(Realize your vulnerability)" 2. No proof required (Realize the uncertainty) 3. Who do you trust? Follow the money and be skeptical. 4. "THEY don't want you to know about this."(Ignore conspiracy theories)" 5. Does it work? Demand SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE before spending your money or subjecting your body. 6. Does it work? Understand the different LEVELS OF EVIDENCE. 7. Stick with reputable companies
Let's start with number 1: "What have I got to lose?"(Realize your vulnerability)"
"People with terminal diseases, or people in chronic pain, are vulnerable. What do I mean? I mean that their disease drives them to a point where they are ""willing to try anything"to make the problem go away. " This makes them vulnerable to unscrupulous people within the healthcare field who want to capitalize on this fact to sell a product. Sad, but true.
"REALIZE that your disease may place such a burden on you, or a loved one, that you have become vulnerable. Because of your position, you need to PAUSE and take SPECIAL CARE TO THINK THROUGH decisions about therapy. "
An example: a good friend of our family was dying of prostate cancer. He heard a lot about places in Mexico that offered treatments not available here.
The cost however, was about $10,000. He was on the verge of relocating when he thought better of it. "No matter how sick you are, you NEVER have ""nothing to lose."There is always the danger of 1) Ignoring or interfering with proven treatments," 2) lost time 3) wasted money; or 4) compromised safety"
Perhaps most devastating, the danger of FALSE HOPE - repeatedly psyching yourself up that ""this next thing"will be the treatment that cures the problem." This can be delusional--it prevents you from focusing on the facts of your illness and making progress by dealing with it in a sober-minded way. (remember that a common defense mechanism is DENIAL. But it is not helpful; denying the facts doesn't help resolve them). It can also cause repeated cycles of over-enthusiasm followed by despair - not an emotionally healthy way to live! let's pause for comments
[Kara] What you're describing, I definitely know of people doing."
[Believing_Thomas] I think that the FDA is getting out of line because they are almost forcing people into thinking they need meds...
[NJ] I have a comment...... as far as medical evidence for treatrment.... how do you evaluate a treatment for let's say, an illness where there are no ""proven"treatments and even conventional drs are skeptical, such as fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue??"
[Believing_Thomas] I am taking a measured amount of cinnimin and this works for me to lower my choleterall and it works for me...
[HisDove] I have been a culprit of healthfood stores trying things like cholostrum, bee pollen etc, nothing they described worked"
[Believing_Thomas] how long do you try something before you say, ""hey this isn't working??""" [Saidenuj] i've had family members try to guilt me into trying something with the ""what have you got to lose"line"
[Kam] good question Thomas
[NJ] yes, i agree[Kam] !! "
[Bev] I think when we have conditions that are not the norm the first thing we should do is lift it up to the ==Lord for his guidance
[TerTX] Thank you Dr. I am one that has gone to both ends of the spectrum for help. Conventional and natural, alternative, etc. I would put western medicine, my insurance and the available doctors at the bottom of the list."
GUEST_DRTURNER---[NJ] -- good question. We will get to that . Sometimes, if there's not much evidence, we must just accept uncertainty. With much uncertainty should come careful watch of your checkbook. Many thoughtful comments.. let's move on to point #2"
[NJ] ah. i see. I ask because I have some of those illneses and it's very very hard not to get ""sucked into"the latest treatments when the conventional drs push you away and us fibro/cfs patients are particularly vulnerable!"
GUEST_DRTURNER--- 2. No proof required (Realize the uncertainty) Everything changed in 1994. That was the year Congress passed the Dietary Supplement and Health Education Act. Since then we have seen an explosion in the availability of herbs and supplements. And lots of money has become involved - more that $27 billion dollars a year. Why the explosive growth? Because that piece of legislation 1) classified herbs as dietary supplements, " and; 2) classified dietary supplements as FOODS, not DRUGS. " The FDA requires that the makers of drugs 1) prove that the product is safe, " 2) prove that it works
[Keith] It gets rather confusing to me sometimes
GUEST_DRTURNER---3) manufacture their product in a stringent manner that assures purity. " BUT since these herbs and supplements are no longer considered ""drugs"", the FDA no longer has oversight over them. " Voila! Easier to market and sell. You need to realize that the makers of any herb or supplement: 1) do NOT have to register with the FDA. They are free from drug manufacturing standards regarding purity. 2) do NOT have to prove that their product WORKS. 3) do NOT have to prove that their product is SAFE for consumption. 4) do NOT have to report ADVERSE EFFECTS to the government. Now, I'm not trying to scare you! " Many supplements are pure, safe, and do what they're purported to do. But many do not. " Just REALIZE that when you buy ""product X which claims to do A,B, and C"", there may be very little product X in the bottle, there may be no evidence that product X does anything, and there is no guarantee that product X won't hurt you. " What about our safety? If the FDA thinks something is unsafe, it must prove - after the fact - that it presents significant or unreasonable risk of i[NJ] ury. Even where overwhelming evidence of such i[NJ] ury exists, the F.D.A. lacks the staff and resources required to document its case in a court of law. " Any thoughts?
[Kam] How do we know which companies are reliable?
HOST_Carolann--- I can see why we can waste money on supplements as treatments - it's discouraging
[Pamela] or which doctors are reliable?
[NJ] yes..... so.. how exactly are we supposed to evaluate these products when there is no proof of them working, no double blind studies, clinical trials, etc... and what about if the person supplying them is our dr?"
GUEST_DRTURNER---[Kam] -- good question. I'll name some later
[Bev] Yes if one is under a doctor's care I think they should adviise the doctor of what they want to try before they do so
[Jasmines_Grannie] I have Hep C and the treatment is very expencive. I have done treatment twice only to fail twice. Friends and family keep telling me I don't look sick so why keep trying or they go to the other side and tell me what I should do. There are days that I feel so sick that I don't want to hear other people how do you handle peole that say yu don't look sick or tell you what to do?
[Soulight] What if we decide to ""mis our own", if we have an herbal medicine book , and decide to try making a pain rub or something ourselves. would that be safe , if we used individual herbs ?"
GUEST_DRTURNER---[NJ] -- great Qs. We'll get to that!
[NJ] i have chronic lyme disease and i have been told by ""naturopathic drs"to steer away from antibiotics and to do natural supplements and I am torn" [NJ] thanks! [NJ] (I will be doing a chat later tomorrow and this info is so helpful!! ;-)
[Kara] [Jasmines_Grannie] , Rest Ministries has some good free articles and also some books about how to deal w/ those people and comments"
[Soulight] -- if you know what you're doing, it could be safe. But remember that herbs and natural plants are potent and can cause harm. "
[Bev] I also dont think there are any guarantees on anything we try and or we do
[Believing_Thomas] I think my mom's being suckered... anyway when can I get a transcrip of this... [Bev] I have found we are in the pioneer stages of many things
GUEST_DRTURNER--- Great comments.. let's move to point # 3 3. Who do you trust? Follow the money and be skeptical.-- Why is it important to find an honest mechanic? Because he tells you you need an expensive part --and then offers to sell it to you
Same thing for healthcare. Be aware of the financial incentives involved.HOW is your healthcare practitioner (whether doctor, chiropractor, masseuse, Reiki practitioner, or whatever) getting paid? If you keep coming back, does he make more money? Is he offering to sell you things that he profits from?
[Kara] Thomas, the transcripts will be posted in the next wk. or two; you could also copy/paste this"
GUEST_DRTURNER---This does NOT necessarily mean the treatment offered is invalid, but it should make you suspicious enough not to accept everything at face value. "
Not to be sound self-serving, but in this regard your doctor may be your best ally. "
Like many doctors, I am on a FIXED SALARY and I do not make money from the medicines I prescribe. This gives me freedom from financial conflict of interest."
Unfortunately, this is not true for most healthcare interactions. Thus, discernment is required. " Thoughts...?
[Believing_Thomas] yeah, I had a Dr, I just hated do they get kickbacks for perscriptions they write??"
[Mary_D] I guess word of mouth is helpful. That way you know someone who has used this doctor or treatment and found it helpful.
[NJ] therE are times I wanted to ask my dr if he profits from the products he sells but i felt funny---like asking if they have stock in that company
[Jennie_K] rogulski I'm fortunate enough to go to a free clinic where all the doctors are retired and volunteer their time. I am able to see a pain specialist there as well. However, before that... I spent tens of thousands of dollars trying to get a diagnoses and trying different meds over a period of nine years. It was actually a doctor from the free clinic who diagnosed me. You do have to watch out." GUEST_DRTURNER-- thomas-- according to law, doctors do not get kickbacks from prescriptions. It may happen, but it is illegal and unethical. Historically, this was why Doctor and Pharmacist became different professions-- to avoid conflict of interest. "
[Anne_W]. sometimes dr.s don't make anything and genuinely want to help, but only were taught the burn/poison/cut approaches to healing. They aren't open to alternatives"
[Mary_D] help, I've lost all the text from my window. I can't see!" [NJ] definitely do jennie!! chronically ill patients are very vulnerable and just like any other industry, the healthcare will take advantage of that unfotunately!"
[Bev] Plus I think we need to reaize that there may not be a cure out there for us and try to except what we can not change
GUEST_DRTURNER[NJ] -- yeah may feel funny, but it's an important question! "
[NJ] yes, and i HAVE asked itbefore"
HOST_Carolann--- Mary's OK now
GUEST_DRTURNER---[NJ] -- good job! Wish all patients were that forthright..
[NJ] great point[Bev] . i think there comes a point in your illness where you stop searcing for the ""magic pill"and accept it a bit"
[Jennie_K] I have been bombarded with mail from a local chiropractor's office guarenteeing healing from FMS. They are constantly sending me mail trying to get me to come. I can smell a scam on that one.
[NJ] someone just sent me a message... i didn't get the whole thing-- yes, i felt uncomfortable, but had to be done. I couldn't tell you the look on the dr's face when i asked and he said i was the only patient that ever asked!"
GUEST_DRTURNER-- Jennie -- I agree. I think this is a great example of what we're talking about -- preying on diseases about which little is known and which cause people great suffering [NJ] (did i mention i am doing a chat on patient empowerment and ci awareness among drs ;-)
[LisaC_RestFounder] One of the things well-meaning people don't always understand is that some doctors, especially specialists, are very leery about any alternative treatments. There are things that ""may not hurt me"but I really LOVE my rheumatologist and have to keep in mind that she could let me go if I decide to treat myself and go off and try anything and everything. Dr., What is your experience in HOW FAR we should go in alternative medicine before doctors generally say, ""fine, go treat yourself, but I can't treat you any longer...""?"
[Anne_W].[Jennie_K] : I believe (based on some experience) that chiro is a scam
[HisDove] One thing that bothers me I've had several docs ""fire"me as a patient, rather than try to help me before fibromyalgia was diagnosed, then later I had a rhumatologist fire me cause he didn't want to be bothered. It's hard, thank goodness I have a good nurse practioner with my primary care doc at the present time. Has anyone else been ""fired""?" [LisaC_RestFounder] wow- what timing our postings had!
GUEST_DRTURNER--Lisa-- maybe we can chat on that after our session. Good Q. If we don't have time, go to my website www.bewellonline.org and send through a consultation "let's move to #4
[Lisa705] yes I was 'fired' from a neurologist this summer because he did not want my past history so I fired him and my dad had to talk to him too
[NJ] yes.. i have been fired by many drs.... my resume is a road map ;-)
Joanne If there was a way to ""cure"Fibromyalgia that person would be a billionaire and all of us sufferers would pounding down his door for the cure!"
GUEST_DRTURNER4. ""THEY don't want you to know about this."(Ignore conspiracy theories)"
[Believing_Thomas] I'm on Med/Med and alot of docs just say it doesn't pay enough for them to treat me...
[Bev] Yes I agree Lisa C. Our doctors are not God and mind is even doing research on his own time for free
GUEST_DRTURNERConspiracy theories seem to be all the rage these days. In some cases they are simply harmless and silly, but in healthcare they can be downright DANGEROUS. You need to IGNORE THEM."
[Jennie_K] Anne..me too.. once you start going... they want you to keep coming back.
GUEST_DRTURNER--Ignore any product that is introduced as some ""secret"that ""they"don't want you to know about. This is the easiest way to hype a product that has little merit. " Theories abound about drug companies, the FDA, the medical establishment and others who collaborate to cover up helpful health breakthroughs. These are lies. " Now, there is a kernel of truth in the idea that drug companies or government agencies have vested interests that do not always align with those of the individual consumer. "
[Jennie_K] I have seen homemade ""pain cream"on ebay that is being sold from someone who is actually making it from home. I wondered if this is legal?"
[Diana_Riordan] I have been standing for 6 years due to doctor damaging my p;udental nerve. Been thru it alll. Just a light hearted question, Why do Vets get to dispense meds. They are really expensive too. I think it should be same as Docs. Hey my scotty dog keeps me from being lonely . Diana"
GUEST_DRTURNER-Granted. However, like most effective lies, this one takes a little truth and then distorts and magnifies it. " after all you all are doctors and not God or miracle workers. The danger is twofold: you may be duped into some treatment that is wasteful or harmful AND you begin to lose trust in legitimate sources. Thoughts??
[Bev] That I agree with
HOST_Carolann--- my one thought is - ""it sure is a jungle out there!"buyer beware and all that"
[Kam] Where is the easy button I see on TV. :)
[NJ] i always wondered.. if something is so wonderful... why is it a secret?
HOST_Carolann--- hehehehe[Kam]
[Believing_Thomas] Staples... he he he
[Soulight] I find that my pharmacist can answer many questions about meds and if they are good/real or not.
GUEST_DRTURNER---[NJ] -- great point!
[NJ] if noone else knows abut it... something is wrong!
[Bev] Yes they can as the doctors can not keep up with all the meds [Believing_Thomas] I find I have to remind my doc about meds that didn't work and then some of them act as if I'm lying...
[Libby] I've always been leary of multilevel companies and of products that are supposed to cure 100's of different health conditions
[Pamela] have you ever heard of the ""guaifenisin protocol" treatment for fibromyalgia?"
[NJ] and... just to comment... i find as a chronic illness patient, the most frustrating this is when my friends or family members tell me about this or that new ""drug"or ""supplement"to try that is supposed to cure me!!"
[NJ] pam.. i have heard of it
[Jennie_K] I've heard of it... and have been very leery... it seems that if it worked... drs everwhere would be putting us all on it.
[NJ] there is an entire support group online dedicated to gui
[Jasmines_Grannie] I had a gastro dr fired me last yr when I told him I couldn't afford him. My primary Dr wanted me to go the University of Florida but when I went to my gastro he told me if I could afford him go to the health department and wouldn't help me get into UF. Why wouldn't a doctor want to help a person get good tx.
[NJ] that's horrible jasmine!
[Believing_Thomas] it happens all the time in the MH feild
[Libby] Amen[NJ]
GUEST_DRTURNER---[NJ] -- I agree completely. This goes back to point #1 -- realize your vulnerability and avoid being pushed and pulled in every direction. And watch the checkbook.
[NJ] yes,[Libby], one of my friends works for one of them and is trying to get me to work for them oir try the product" GUEST_DRTURNER....I have my paper and pen ready to write down reliable supplement companies
[Pamela] how do I find the support group[NJ] ?
GUEST_DRTURNER---Allright -- these next two comments are the MOST IMPORTANT of the whole session.. 5. Does it work? Demand SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE before spending your money or subjecting your body. One hundred years ago people who were sick drank mercury. They were also cut, or had leeches applied, in order to drain their blood. " [NJ] and... on a practical note... since supplements are not covered by insurance, many of us can't affford them.... and saome natural drs will make us feel guilty about that" GUEST_DRTURNER---Why? Because the medical establishment thought this was helpful. Why don't we do these things today? Because SCIENCE has proven that they are not helpful. Is this an advantage? I certainly think so.
GUEST_DRTURNER==But what if we didn't know this? What if your doctor, today in 2006, continued to make money by selling you mercury, or by having you come in for weekly blood-letting? " That would be a shame; it would represent BONDAGE to a FALSE IDEA. This is the beauty of rationality, and by extension, the scientific method. It is a gift of God. It reflects one of the ways we are made ""in His image.""" It helps us discover TRUTH in our world In so doing, we are set free from BONDAGE TO FALSE IDEAS that are, at minimum, a waste of time and money, and at worst, downright harmful."
[Diana_Riordan] They still use leeches in surgery now or sever bacteria, I think thats the reason. It works.,diana"
[Bev] Yes and he is the divnine healer and we can be healed in many ways
GUEST_DRTURNER---What about a person who charges $60 an hour to adjust your energy? Or someone who sells you expensive formulations of colloidal silver? Or Noni juice? Is this helpful? Or does Only time, and scientific inquiry, will tell. Be PATIENT and allow time for scientific evidence. " [Jennie_K] Someone came to my door a couple of months ago wanting to sell me that juice. It's a fruit juice right?
GUEST_DRTURNERDon't be in a rush to spend hundreds, or thousands, of dollars on some health treatment for which there is no good evidence"
[Jennie_K] My aunt who also has fibromyalgia drinks cactus juice... it's very expensive
[NJ] ah....everyone tells me about that juice, like it's a miracel!!"
GUEST_DRTURNER---any more than you would spend that much money on some funny-looking kitchen gadget without any explanation or evidence that it would actually help you get work done.
[NJ] soinds yummie jennie!!
[LisaC_RestFounder] how do we know what is REAL scientific evidence? they all can come up wiht ""fake"scientific evidence? is there an organization or anything that we can ask that is an advocate for this kind of thing?"
GUEST_DRTURNER---Thoughts?
[Mary_D] I didn't like the taste of Noni, rather disgusting."
[Jennie_K] uck... lol
[Believing_Thomas] Don't be the first to try, one of my good docs says..."
GUEST_DRTURNER---Lisa-- good point. We'll get to that
[Jasmines_Grannie] since then my primary did get me into UF. My doctor there have said my gastro treated me all wrong. And I am finally getting the right help. What can I do about the gastro the fired me. I feel like he knerw that he was wrong and that why he didn't want me at UF
[NJ] there is an org that does provide some ""evidence"for these supplements"
[AngelWellness] You can't just take a supplement. You have to work with your diet as well
[NJ] very true
GUEST_DRTURNER---Let's move on..
[Believing_Thomas] How long do we personally try something before we go to something new [Soulight] I agree with what said about God and the scientific theory. His (God's) order is what reveals the truth.
GUEST_DRTURNER---6. Does it work? Understand the different LEVELS OF EVIDENCE. not all evidence is created equal. Of course, we intuitively know this. " In a court of law, there's a big difference between someone saying ""He had a motive to do it"", versus ""I saw him do it,"versus showing a fingerprint from the crime scene. " Different levels of evidence carry different amounts of weight and represent different levels of certainty. The same is true for healthcare. A brief example is as follows: WEAKEST: Testimonials. -- I used product X and I lost weight-- You don't even know if you can trust the person. WEAK: A good theory. --Product X is known to help cells break down fat; thus, it should help you lose weight. " A fine mechanism, but does it ACTUALLY help people lose weight?" MIDDLE: Personal experience. You tried product X and you lost weight. But guess what? You can't completely trust this, either!! " What about the placebo effect? (certain people will lose weight EVEN if given an empty pill) ) What about your diet or stress levels-did those change recently? Maybe you were drinking more coffee-which causes you to urinate more and lose water weight Or maybe your hormones fluctuated and caused weight loss?
[NJ] yes, they want so much to lose weight!!"
GUEST_DRTURNERUltimately, you can't completely trust yourself because you NEVER KNOW what would have happened had you NOT tried the product. " This is why we need observations of large numbers of people to discern the truth. In other words, why we need science. " Again, it is God's gift. " BEST: Numbers that demonstrate a difference [Believing_Thomas] wait, I tried something personally that had a lot of evidence that it could have worked for me but didn't" GUEST_DRTURNER---We gave product X to two identical groups of people and those who took it lost Z amount of weight. Who cares about all this? Because many therapies, herbs,and supplements are based on levels of evidence that are weaker. " [NJ] so... where do you find scientific evidence for these "supplements." Thus, there is more uncertainty as to whether they are actually helpful.They MAY work; they may not. But we don't KNOW FOR SURE that it does until science proves it. Spending your hard-earned money may be helpful -- or a complete waste. The longer you wait, the more certainty you will have."
[NJ] thomas.... we can't be sure there were not other factors interfering w/ it;seffectiveness
GUEST_DRTURNER---7. Stick with reputable companies. As I mentioned earlier, because of deregulation there is no requirement that herbs or supplements are pure, safe, or effective." The quickest answer to this dilemma is to stick with companies that have a long track record of excellence.
[Believing_Thomas] I personally tried something that had scietific backing to it, besides it just didn't work for me... was it my "
GUEST_DRTURNERI will go on record and mention these as the most reputable brands I'm aware of: Twinlab, Nature's Way, Solgar, Puritan Pride, Shaklee, Country Life, Nature Made. There are others, but these are many of the major players. " (FYI: I have no financial interest in any of these) [NJ] what about metagenics?
GUEST_DRTURNERWhat about supplements from the store brand, like GNC? In my experience these are lower quality. " Why? Because the retailer gets bulk production with cheap ingredients to offer the best price possible, thus taking market share away from competitors" For a simple product like vitamin E, or Vitamin C this doesn't matter. But for something more complex, like glucosamine or an herb, I would stick with a brand name. " 8. Know your resources Is it pure? www.consumerlab.com (access to some parts is not free) Is it safe? www.consumerlab.com Does it work? http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/drug-information/DrugHerbIndex Free access to the best database in the business -- Natural Standard
[Believing_Thomas] I went on some drug, aproved by the FDA, has a track record of helping like most the people that take it but I wasn't helped"
[NJ] that might have been the website i was talking about
GUEST_DRTURNER--In closing, here are my summary points:" 1. Our freedom is a double-edged sword. We have ease of access to many treatments, but also, tremendous amounts of money being wasted, and sometimes harm being done. " 2. Underdtand the difference between drugs and herbs or supplements Herbs and supplements are unique in that the makers DO NOT have to 1) prove that they work, " 2) prove that they are safe, 3) report adverse events in those who take them." 3. Don't jump on every bandwagon. Understand that most herbs/supplements are based on preliminary levels of research. Further research may show that it works-or not. Spending your hard-earned money may be helpful-or a complete waste. The longer you wait, the more certainty you will have. "
[Jennie_K] Thank you so much for your help!
GUEST_DRTURNERThank you all for your time. I can stick around for a few minutes. You will also find my website, www.bewellonline.org to have many valuable, and free, resources. Our mission is to empower you to live a healthy live, to the glory of God. Thanks!"
[Believing_Thomas] THXS maybe I'm just diffrent than the folks it helped???
HOST_Carolann--- thank you so much Dr. Turner for all the information
[Mary_D] thank you
[Mary_Lou] Thank you for sharing your expertise with us, Dr. Turner. God bless you!"
[NJ] thank so much for great info!!
[Kam] Appreciate you taking the time today
[Soulight] God Bless you , "
[Saidenuj] what about alternative treatments? like colon hydrotherapy etc? where can we find out if those are proven effective?
[Lisa705] thank you Dr. Turner
[Bev] thank you for coming and sharing all you have
HOST_Carolann--- alot of excellent tips and if anyone wants to read up this chat session it will be in transcript in a couple weeks
[Kara] thank you, Dr. Turner"
[Libby] Thank you
[Bev] God Bless You
GUEST_DRTURNER Thomas-- yeah. Even something that is proven is still a matter of statistics. Helps some, does not help others."
HOST_Carolann--- exactly Thomas - we are all,unique"
[Soulight] God Bless you , Dr. Turner ,and Thank-you !"
HOST_Carolann--- thank you all for coming today
[NJ] btw.... if someone sent me a message about lyme disease, i didn't get it so email me if you can... you can get my email on the chat list"
[Believing_Thomas] not much comfort when you feel singled out to be, well you know... (at least how I feel"
[Libby] Could you address Lisa Copen's question re How do we know it is real scientific eveidence
[Bev] thank you Carolann--- and Lisa Copen
GUEST_DRTURNER[Saidenuj] -- a little harder to do. If you want to send me your email address via my website, I will research that and get back to you, free or charge. It's am important question. "
[LisaC_RestFounder] Thanks everyone for coming. Our next session will be at 1 pm pacific, 4 pm eastern, with a register dietician." |
Michael
K. Turner, MD, is a graduate of Stanford University and Harvard Medical
School and is completing his training in Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation.
He has particular interests in nutrition, Alternative Medicine, and
fitness. He is blessed with a wonderful wife and baby daughter. He created
a website, www.bewellonline.org, to educate and empower patients and
their families.